Philips HearLink 9050 to hit Costco soon? With similar tech to Oticon Intent?

#122

Of course it’s your prerogative to think that these companies are deceiving customers into thinking that their product lines are different while they’re not. But my take is that Oticon never said anything to anybody that their product lines are different than the Philips line, nor do they say that they’re the same products. It’s us common user folks here who are debating this point here because Costco HIS’s make the claim themselves, not Oticon nor Philips.

And while it’s also your prerogative to take the negative view and dismiss that HA companies’ whitepapers really as just a marketing spin and mean nothing, I think it depends on the whitepaper. I’ve seen some whitepaper to be very wishy washy and not providing very good clear details on how the technologies work (like the Starkey whitepaper on their Genesis AI). But I’ve found Oticon whitepapers to be informative and revealing enough to give you a good idea of the inner working of their technologies at a high level. The Philips whitepapers I’ve read also take on the same vein of the Oticon whitepapers, revealing enough about their technologies overall to be credible.

So let’s just agree to disagree that even if the whitepapers mean nothing to you, I personally found the Oticon and Philips whitepapers to be informative and meaningful and truthful enough to me as an engineer.

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#123

Exactly! I don’t know why Costco HIS’s must keep on insisting that Philips aids are the same as the tier 1 Oticon aids. Let them all stand on their own merits in the real world performance. Why is the very first point Costco HIS make to their customers must be that the Philips aids are the same as the Oticon aids? That’s like implying and admitting that the Oticon aids are the golden standard that the Philips aids strive to be a copy of? It’s totally unnecessary.

The Philips aids, by themselves, at that Costco price point, is an unbelievable value already. I personally believe that the Philips aids are a better value than the Oticon aids based on price.

#124

The Encanta and Intent don’t fit the same charger. The More/Real and Alpha/Alpha XT use the same charger shape. That would appear to run counter to your argument.

I’ll have a £50 on the 9050 not fitting the Oticon case/charger either to maintain (the illusion of) market segregation.

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#125

You can tell their motivation for doing it simply because they don’t make the nearer comparison (in my book) to the Bernafon Encanta.

It’s roughly the equivalent of a Skoda salesman telly you that you’re getting a cut-priced Audi rather than a Golf in a cheap suit.

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#126

I don’t want to keep going back and forth with you so I only have one question.

Do you own the OTICON Intent ?

If you do then it explains everything.

I can understand why you would have such a hard time after paying 7k for something that others may be able to get for 1.6k.

Even if it’s not exactly the same.

Is it 4 times better??? That’s what it would have to be for me to justify the price difference.

Anyway. Have a good day

#127

Regardless of whether the 9050 and the Intent are identical or just similar, the difference in cost is about the person who is providing your hearing care. That’s what you’re paying extra for when you buy the Intent.

One other thought about the proposition that Oticon is selling an identical hearing aid under a different name to get the benefits of volume sales is that Oticon have removed their hearing aids from insurance company sales/reimbursement. Why would they do that? Selling the Intent at a discounted price through insurance companies woukdn’t be much different than boosting sales by selling through Costco.

#128

The charger looks to be the same one in photos, same charging technology, same shape.

Any incompatibility in using them cross-brand would be a deliberate choice, and understandable.

#129

This statement put a big smile on my face.
Chuckling

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#130

That’s what they want you to think. If the fitting process would be anywhere near being worth 6500$ everyone would be perfectly fitted with no complaints, and as we all know that’s an exception, not the norm.

Not to mention that often they won’t inform you what’s included in the package and the amount of aftercare you’re buying. In the end, being unused with no follow-ups whatsoever.

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#131

Fact: If you buy at Costco, you get the services of whatever Hearing Instrument Specialist happens to be working at that store. If that HUS leaves, you get whomever is next in line. Not just for the fitting but for the ongoing care as well.

Fact: If you want to work with the audiologist of your own choosing, you’re going to pay a premium price.

Fact: If you want access to the latest technology, you will pay a premium price. For example, Signia released its latest IX technology almost 8 months ago but it’s still not available at Costco. The Oticon Intent is currently available but the Philips 9050 is not and will experience similar delays before it becomes available.

Is it worth the extra cost? That depends. On a lot of things.

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#132

No I don’t own the Oticon Intent. Hope this settles it for you right there and then for good.

So it’s not like you think, that I paid too much for the Intent such that I now need to justify my over-priced purchase on this forum because I don’t want to think others pay only $1500 for the same thing that I paid almost $8K for.

I approach this subject regarding the differences between the Intent vs the 9050 purely from a technical perspective as somebody coming from an engineering background who like to read whitepapers to understand the core technologies of hearing aids. I’m not doing this from a personal angle of somebody who paid too much for something and now am trying to justify for my overpriced purchase.

I currently own the Oticon OPN 1 which I only paid $360 to my HCP for because my insurance company paid my HCP $3400 for the rest of it. If my OPN 1s go bad today and I must buy a new pair of aids to replace them, I would go out and buy the Philips 9050 in a heart beat over the Oticon Intent for $8000. But I will not be fooled by Costco HIS’s into thinking that I’m getting the same hearing aids as the Oticon Intent for $1500.

But if money is not a big consideration to me, I can see the value of people who are willing to pay to get the Intent see, because they think it’s worth the money. I will judge neither people who buy Oticon aids nor people who buy Philips aids on what they choose to buy. I just can’t stand willy-nilly comparison from Costco HIS’s who think they know it all, and feel the need to stress to their customers that the Philips aids are one and the same as the first tier Oticon aids. The Philips aids can stand on their own merits without needing to make this deceptive comparison in the first place.

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#133

Hardly any of this is worth the money difference, but that’s me. I can acknowledge that it might be for some.

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#134

I think you hit the nail right on the head here, @billgem . If William Demant really wants to proliferate the sales of Oticon products to reach out to ALL markets, why would they make this move to stop selling the Oticon Intents to vendors who are set up to sell to insurance companies at volume discount pricing?

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#135

Demant’s strategy right now is basically:

  • Oticon - reserved for their vertically-integrated shops like Hearing Life, independent practitioner customers, ENTs and medical centers, and other clinical buyers (oh and the VA)
  • Philips - reserved for Costco in the USA and apparently direct to consumer in some parts of the world (I’ve heard, but not confirmed the latter)
  • Bernafon - reserved for managed care in the USA (insurance like United Health, etc)

All of these brands release similar tech with similar features and similar apps all that the same time. Exactly how identical they are is not clear, and this is intentional. All the major brands are doing this, and there’s really no obvious scientific technique for determining the true differences. Feature names and white papers are changed a little bit to help befuddle people like me who try to compare products for a living. However, my gut feeling is they are the same in terms of real world performance and outcomes. Again, I can’t really prove anything.

Note: They also manufacture Sonic and sell under other brands like AGX and Amplifon…

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#136

Thank you for a very succinct summary here, @AbramBaileyAuD . I agree that at the end of the day, if all 4 Demant brands satisfy their customers, that’s what counts ultimately.

It’s OK for the users to try to do their homework and compare features and technologies and values and whatnots to help them reach an informed decision on what to buy, and that’s where the Hearing Tracker comparison charts deliver this value to people who need to do their homework/research first.

But it’s just silly for Costco HIS to go around and spew the first thing out of their mouths that Philips aids are exactly the same as the first tier Oticon aids. That does not help count toward an informed decision. It might do the reverse, cause a misinformed decision. But I guess it might help count toward a “feel good” satisfaction of being a shrewd consumer, even if the information spewed out by Costco HIS is questionable information.

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#137

It’s certainly an absolute pain if you sell both brands and need to put a charger on the desk to do a battery check/reboot ahead of firing up the manufacturer’s software.

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#138

Same diff really for any practice with more than one practitioner. Yours leaves, someelse gets assigned. Worse than that is a sole practitioner who decides it’s time to retire to Costa Rica.

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#139

My experience is that turnover is higher at Costco. YMMV.

But even when a private audiologist leaves or retires, you’re in charge of picking the replacement. Costco gets to decide who will be assigned to your store. That’s okay. There are good reasons to go either way. I’m just pointing out that there is a difference and one of those options is more expensive.

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#140

Is it worth the EXTRA THOUSANDS of dollars is the real question. I’ve read many stories here with people who have purchased from the audiologist and still have problems.

So doesn’t that contradict your theory?

I personally think it’s crazy not to go to Costco first and try them for the 6 month return policy. If they work then you saved thousands and if they didn’t then you still go buy them from the audiologist.

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#141

“However, my gut feeling is they are the same in terms of real world performance and outcomes.”

Isn’t that all that really matters. I mean you could have the latest and greatest technology but if it doesn’t show up in the real world usage then is it really worth the extra money?

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