Philips HearLink 9030 or Oticon More 3?

Hearing Aids
#41

I tried the KS10 at Costco and it was really tinny and they put a rubbery mold on it that plugged up my ear. So I tried the Costco Phillips 9030 and the More 1 at an audiologist . I was disappointed at not being able to trial the More1 and the 9030 at the same time. Also, trialing at home, rather than 5 minutes at the store makes it easier to conduct a good evaluation, too bad it can’t be done with Costco. Warning : The comparison for me between the two HA’s is subjective and subject to the volume control settings. The More1 by definition is better than the 9030 due to Demant’s programming, and in my opinion it seemed to have speech understanding with lower error rates (my wife’s words not recognized) than the 9030. Speech in noise is not an issue for me as I don’t go to restaurants often. But again, it wasn’t a fair comparison.

The cheapest price on the More1 from an audiologist is $5800, More2 is $4800, More3 is $3500, with a 3, 2, 1 year warranty for each model and it seems that free fitting may be only for the warranty period. Ask about the fitting period because one audiologist quoted an un-bundled price and didn’t tell me it was un-bundled in the quote. Generally, it seems you can only trial the More1. If you want to try the More 3, you have to buy it. There is a $100 restocking fee with a 30 day period. If the More 1 was $3500, I would buy it. I was reluctant to buy the dumb-ed down More3 for $3500. Even though I have not tried the Oticon OPN, I agree with the previous reviewer that the 9030 performance is equivalent to the OPN.

After I complained about the loudness test that the first Costco HIS gave me, I was shifted to the Lead Costco HIS, who I liked much better. I like a loudness test that audiologists use better. If you don’t like the HIS, request another. I downloaded the Phillips Hearsuite software and this gave me the knowledge to request 9030 fitting modifications at Costco. I requested that Costco give me my Hearsuite data, but Costco has altered the software so that can’t be done to protect patient privacy. So I then took pictures of the my Hear Suite settings on their PC so I could enter the data into my software by hand. Costco provides free domes with a 3 year warranty. Having the software makes it much easier to explore the Hearsuite setting options and request changes. The HIS told me that HA’s are meant for use within 4 ft. When my wife isn’t facing me and is some distance away, I have more trouble understanding her. I know that HA’s don’t replace your hearing but I would like to understand my wife’s speech better. Oh well. It has been over 6 months and I am keeping the 9030.

The 9030 has a bump on the end of it that makes it harder for me to feel where the lower button is. When you shift the volume buttons and you happen to cross the midpoint of the 20 volume steps you will hear a beep/tone. When the HA’s are recharged they will reset to that midpoint volume setting and default to program 1. You can have the HIS adjust the midpoint volume setting point and the step size 1 or 2.5 db. Costco has a 3 yr warranty and changing the rechargeable battery is $130. Ear molds, I think are $50 each and Phillips makes them. The TV streaming device is $240. You can return the HA’s and get your money back up to 6 months and I think they have HA loss protection. I am told the bluetooth interface isn’t very reliable and you need Android 10 to stream. if you want to just control the 9030 settings, then Android 9 will work and I did find it useful for a while to change programs. The HIS can reduce the volume of the program change beeps. I would like to use a roger like partner mic but there isn’t a PTT (push to talk) switch which makes it useless for me.
The 9030’s don’t have a tinnitus setting.

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#42

Is the $130 for changing the rechargeable battery for both sides, or is it $260 for both sides? And I assume that this cost is only after your 3 year warranty has expired, right? I would monitor the battery performance VERY closely toward the end of the 3 year warranty and if it doesn’t perform as advertised anymore like in the beginning, I would insist on getting the battery changed while it’s still under warranty.

As for the BT interface, I assume that you mean you need Android 10 to stream directly without an intermediate device, right? But if you don’t have an Android 10-based phone but a previous Android version phone, you should be able to get the Philips AudioClip to use it as a BT streaming device, and it can also be used as a remote mic similar to how you want to use the Roger mic, but maybe not as nice.

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#43

I would strongly suspect that the hardware differences between the Oticon mores has to do with binning. A more 1 would definitely have passed all inspections and be fully programmable. A more 2 would likely have fabrication errors that lower the chips quality so that some features are disabled or modified.
I used to unlock my CPUs to get the benefits of the higher priced chips. Interestingly unlocking always worked for me but I do remember reading many sad stories
If you know how to unlock your aids I would enjoy reading about it

#44

Are you basing this on anything other than conjecture? Some hearing aid manufacturers have trial models that can be programmed to the different levels. My understanding is that there are no hardware differences between the different levels.

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#45

The hardware is identical but it’s functions vary according to how well it was fabricated. That’s where programming comes in. A first quality chip can have all the More 1 features but a chip that grades lower will be programmed for reduced features

#46

@ronshere -> I’d say you don’t really know what you’re talking about when it comes to the More 1, 2, and 3 functionalities and you’re just extrapolating generalities (that “may” apply to CPU or other types of chips) onto the More hearing aid chip that don’t really apply to the More chip in the first place.

There’s a BIG difference between “grading lower” and “programming for reduced features”. Grading lower may allow you to bin the parts to qualify to run at a reduced clock rate or something like that, and it may go as far as programming for reduced functionalities that can be bypassed for certain types of chip that you may have had in mind. But that’s not how the More 1, 2, 3 tiers work. They’re not randomly reduced functionalities via binning due to yield loss/grading. They’re reduced functionalities ON PURPOSE, even if the yield and grading is perfect. The functionality differences between them are not optional and it’s not like if fabrication errors lower the chip quality, you can just do without certain functionalities and lower the grade and can live without the missed functionalities and simply classify them as More 2 or More 3.

Just look at the feature comparison below for the More 1, 2, and 3. Environmental configuration of 5, 5 and 3 options. That’s a programming feature thru and thru, you can’t bin lower grade parts to have 3 configurations. You can only cripple to force it down to 3 configurations as an option.

Look at the processing channels, 64, 48 and 48. These channels are planned for. They cripple 16 channels of the 64 to turn it into 48 for the More 2 and 3. But the remaining channels MUST operate at same speed as the 64 channel version. A lower grade part cannot be programmed to reduce from 64 to 48 channels and still be functionally operable as a 48 channel device.

Look at the Spatial Sound feature, 4 and 2 and 2 Estimators. They may cripple 2 of the 4 Estimators in the More 2 and 3, but the 2 remaining Estimators must operate at the same speed as the rest of the design. A lower grade chip would not necessarily yield 2 working Estimators out of the 4 because nobody can plan to have exactly the locations of 2 of the 4 Estimators to fail to yield exactly the same way every time. There’s NO WAY Oticon can plan and control that through the yield/grading in the mfg process by chance. It has to be a planned reduced feature based on programming and not based on yield/grading because it’s impossible to be left to chance on whether something may or may not yield.

I would contend that the More 1, 2 and 3 has the exact same hardware and they have to pass through their minimal yield/grading criteria first, then programming is use to cripple features in the More 2 and 3 on purpose, not based on yield grading, because it simply CANNOT be left to chance to control how the lower grading will yield how much of the More 2 and 3 are to be produced. The More1, 2 and 3 quantities are produced by programming based on consumer demand. Their quantities are not left to chance to be produced purely based on yield or grading.

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#47

Exactly, @Volusiano: …Exactly!

#48

It is now $135 to factory battery replacement for each HA ($270 for both). Yes, it is covered under warranty and the HIS did tell me to come in a couple of months before the warranty ends to check the batteries. After 1 yr, one of the batteries has gone down to the 86% level.