Philips HearLink 9030 observations (new Costco aid by Demant)

I tried to get the 6mm ones off and could not get them to budge since very small to grab like the video. The fitter grabbed the outside edge and tore it off pulling it inside out and actually tearing up the dome. I have not tried to pull off the 8mm one and since I do have an extra set they gave me I will give that a go. Looks easy and maybe the larger dome will allow me to get it off without damaging it. Thanks

I have no idea if any of these domes will fit the Philips 9030. For instance what does minifit vs instant fit mean? All I know is that I have the openbass domes. The HearSuite program fitters use does not list a traditional open dome as shown above but that’s what I would like to use. The HA are called minirite and I don’t see minifit listed. But the receiver is the “85”…is it the same as the more? I have no idea but the More doesn’t offer the open dome either. The Opn S, Opn and Opn Play do show that the open dome works but not the open bass…so maybe this says the open and open dome are NOT interchangeable?

I sure wish they had a 7mm though. The 8mm works fine in my right ear but I have a tight section in my left ear canal that I have to overcome to get them in. The 6mm is so small the vents are mostly blocked by the receiver because they hit due to the receiver bend at the end.

They don’t have to fit the Philips 9030. They have to fit the Oticon miniFit receivers, which I believe are physically the same.

ETA: AFAIK; the (Instant Fit Options) part of the chart simply (but confusingly) shows mm-size as opposed to showing power (60, 85, 100).

The Philips 9030 and Oticon More can both use an OpenBass dome (although I’m not sure if the domes are interchangeable.)

The “white paper” for the Philips 9030 says this about the OpenBass dome:

The new dome, called the OpenBass dome, replaces the current Open dome… In the legacy Open dome, the acoustical venting is realized by “flat” holes that are perforated on the surface of the silicon dome. In the new OpenBass dome, the acoustical venting is realized by 3D grooves through the silicon dome that are formed by a curved floor, and a ceiling towards the base of the dome. This structure is three dimensional, as opposed to flat holes in the legacy Open dome, and it is referred to as SoundTunnelsTM.

Compared to the legacy Open dome, the benefit of the SoundTunnelsTM is that engineers were able to reduce the acoustical venting area of the OpenBass dome by 70 %, while maintaining the same “openness” perception. The combination of a reduction in venting area and a higher predictability of the effective venting once inserted in individual ear canals has several benefits, including that it creates a better acoustical environment for the feedback canceller, which also facilitates the match of the prescribed gain on expected target gain values.

My question: Does the OpenBass dome create more “insertion loss” than the standard Open dome? The above description is a little confusing. If the acoustical venting area of the OpenBass dome is reduced by 70%, how can the same “openness” perception happen?

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AFAIK; the miniFit receivers (Oticon, Bernafon, Philips) remain unchanged. Therefore the old (and new) domes should both fit on the unchanged miniFit receivers.

But, I am not saying they should be mixed/interchanged. The acoustics that are assigned by the fitting software is likely different.

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I was able to remove and clean my open domes. I dried them with alcohol and a half hr in the HA dryer. They are so slippery (from wax) and small that’s it’s not easy getting them off without tearing them. I’ll probably try to clean them from time to time as needed until I damage them and then replace. Not sure if there’s any difference in performance though. And I agree that even if the open domes fit, the program might not compensate for them correctly so as long as I found a way to clean them I won’t change them. Wish my NoahLink were here since I have some very simple changes I’d like to make now rather than wait until the 31st.

My friend wears Phonak’s but she pokes the wax out from the holes with a pin and keeps the domes on her receivers.

Don’t know if that would help you?

I could easily do that with the Rexton BiCore domes but not these open bass domes. The 3D surfaces hang onto and make the wax tough to remove with a wash.

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I really appreciate all the info shared here about the Philips 9030, especially @Abarsanti and @fbacher1 and it’s been so helpful that I want to document and share my own initial experiences with Costco and this hearing aid. I was just fitted this morning so have been wearing them for about 6 hours. The hearing aids I’m replacing are Oticons–about 10 years old.

First, open bass dual vent domes. I’ve always worn custom ear molds so this is my first experience with a generic ear piece. So far, so good I think. Very light and comfortable. Hardly even feel I’m wearing them. They’re 8 mm. No whistling, reverberation or feedback of any type.

I went with my idea of the 4 programs to start with but that changed in the fitting booth. Which is a terrible place to try hearing aids–as some have said already–and the Costco floor wasn’t much better. I went to the food court and the checkout lines to see if I could hear people talking through the noise. I couldn’t make out more than a word or two occasionally. At that point I only had the General program. I told them I couldn’t hear speech there even though I was singling out dyads and small groups who were talking and getting close enough that I thought I should be able to hear without being weird. The fitter who came in to help my fresh out of HIS school fitter said that happens even to him out there and he doesn’t wear hearing aids. The environment’s just too tough.

So, since my fitter didn’t know how to set up programs yet he set them up. The first one he set is called Airplane. I can’t find it online. Have any of you seen a document that describes the purpose of each of this hearing aids’ programs? (Thanks for the listing of them fbacher1.) He said it isn’t just for being on a plane and Oticon audiologists highly recommend it. So, OK, there goes one of my intended programs. I’ll see what this one does. The other two programs are Speech in Noise (which I didn’t intend to get) and Noise. I showed him a print out of your screenshot fbacher1 and he said it’s the default Noise program. So that’s what I have. All default settings.

My drive home is nearly 2 hours so I listened to music and wind. The freeway noise with the window opened a bit was too noisy but I didn’t want to deal with the app while driving. They didn’t tell me how to change the program on the aid itself (or if they did I forgot). So I just closed the window and turned on AC. When I got home and played around I figured it out. Music at first sounded kind of tinny. Either I got used to it during that time or that distortion smoothed out. On one song, I lost the fade out at the end before it actually faded out. On another there was a xylophone solo and a couple of times notes dropped out–I guess is how I’d describe it. I knew they should be there but I didn’t hear them. The Music program is one I intended to get, but he’d already done his 4 and he also told me that’s really a specialist program–mostly for musicians. But, I’m going to intrude on that space with my first remote follow-up fitting and dump one of these programs for the Music program.

Speech with my spouse at home was fine, clear, heard everything she said accurately. Using the General program. Then we went to a street festival. Walking beside each other there were a couple of times I mistook a couple of words she said for similar sounding words. Not happy with that. I switched to Speech in Noise and couldn’t hear anything but gobblydygook. Switched to Noise and heard all but the last word–which I heard but it wasn’t the correct word. This all surprised me, since one of the things I noticed with the Phonak Paradise was how clearly and accurately I heard everything she said when we were walking together, even if she was slightly behind me to my side. Any suggestions?

Driving my convertible, more wind noise than with the Phonak Paradise but I could hear her speech accurately even when she was looking away from me. So happy with that.

I took photos of the default settings for 3 of the 4 programs (missed the Noise one apparently) so plan to compare them to try to see what I can figure out. I’m not counting on either of the Costco fitters I worked with today to have recommendations. They were both very nice and the new fitter was very accommodating. Since I have to drive so far to get to a Costco store she gave me a bunch of extra domes and filters. She told me to come by any time if I need cleaning or repair or I could mail them the aids if I preferred. A couple of people did drop by for some quick help while I was there and they were waited on and appeared to get their problem resolved.

Question: Are fitting bands the same thing as channels? I got what I thought was an odd answer about the number of channels this hearing aid has—basically that it’s irrelevant. So I’m wondering if maybe I used the wrong term.

Now starting to listen to kitchen noises and musical accompaniment to cooking. :slight_smile: So far, ok.

Oh, and the app is seriously rudimentary. It does so little, why bother.

Edit: Also wanted to add that they used REM for fitting. At this Costco they use 90 percent of target. I was surprised when she answered my “at target” question by saying they were set fully to target since the volume didn’t hurt like the Paradise did at more than 80 percent. So I pushed a little and that’s when she told me they use 90 percent as the default because her manager says the Oticon is too aggressive for most people. This morning, speech was too loud for me at this setting so I turned the volume down a notch. Crunchy toast chewing noise is still loud but speech ok.

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The music program basically turns off all noise reduction. The noise and noise in speech are very similar with the major difference in the directionality and the added speech clarifier set to max. I think that allows more noise in because I didn’t like how it worked in the noisy Costco warehouse. I wish the app was more like the HearSuite program without the fitting routines…just the slide bars so you can experiment right on the spot when you’re having issues. Next best thing is to learn how to use the HearSuite program which I’m going to do because the app is almost useless, lol. One thing is that over time I guess it becomes tougher for the HA to overcome our declining hearing and so understanding suffers. So far I know I need the high frequencies down a bit and then I think I can turn the volume back up from -2 or -3. Great review Cleimer101! Oh maybe with low frequency loss you could try the double bass dome to keep more the low frequencies in for you. Even with my losses that’s the one recommended for me by the program.

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I’d prefer the app as you describe it too but with documentation about the purpose of each setting. The Phonak Paradise app had more options for changes on the fly, but without knowing what even those relatively few options are supposed to do it’s a complex game of trial and error, mostly the latter. At least for me. The possibility of the fitting software is something I have in mind if I just can’t get someone at Costco who can figure it out. It’s early on this one though and I’ll do more research myself over the next couple of weeks to better understand what the various settings options do.

Thanks for the suggestion about bass domes. In the past I’ve always needed vented, and wore custom, largely because of occlusion. I can’t stand that closed-in feeling. I even gave myself that feeling messing around with the Phonak Paradise app in a restaurant trying to get it to tone down the background noise. Eventually I got that part comfortable, but at the expense of feeling like I was in a tunnel looking out intensely at my dining companion and still needing to concentrate intensely.

I found today on my mtn bike ride with 5 others that with the std noise program I could not understand voices very well although it was mostly quiet except for wind noise. With the speech in noise program instant understanding (mostly). But it was bit too noisy. I ended up turning the volume to -4 but would have been better if I could have dialed back the speech clarifier from high to medium or even low to see if the noise was lower without affecting speech too much. That would normally take 2 trips to Costco and a month just to try that out, lol!

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@fbacher1 I had a similar experience with the Noise program today. It’s very windy with lots of dry leaves rustling in the trees and I had the top down on my car with a talk show on the radio and a train running parallel to me one street over. More noise than you were in bit the similarity is what happened with the Noise program. It tamped down everything, including speech–as if I’d turned the volume down. I couldn’t understand some of the talk on the radio. Since the speech clarifier is off in that program I assume turning up the volume would have increased all sounds but I didn’t try that. I wanted to test all the programs before the train passed.

I thought the one that worked best was Airplane, but I realized when I got home that I had the names associated with P2 and P3 reversed in my mind so it might have been Speech in Noise that worked the best. I understood most of the words and think some I missed we’re unfamiliar to me.

Of my 4 programs, only Noise knocks out the tree leaves rustling that I hear with the other 3 programs while sitting in my living room with the window open.

I hear you about the timeframe and number of trips to try simple settings change tests. Today I listed the 4 programs in a spreadsheet so I can see what features are changeable in each. Also noting each setting of each feature in each program side by side for quick comparison. But, figuring out which features and which settings of those features is making the difference feels like a mountain of trial and error.

I found a 2 page fitting guide that at least said what each feature is and a few tips for what fitters should change if a patient has a particular complaint.

I also downloaded the HearSuite software and put my audiogram into it so it would let me see the kinds of things that can be modified with the software. It has a 700+ page manual. (Edit: Only 25 pages in English but repeated in many languages.) Maybe I’ll become a sound engineer in my retirement career! :wink: Ridiculous to need to do this much work to get devices to work well for us.

The HearSuite software couldn’t detect my hearing aids. I assume that’s because I don’t have NoahLink and its driver.

I found the DIY Forum with the resources/school link. But if anyone has any tips for shortening this study and exploration I’d greatly appreciate it and happily share whatever I pick up.

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Yes you need the NoahLink. Mine should be here next week.

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5 days into wearing the Philips aids I thought I’d add some more notes about what I’ve noticed.

I still turn the volume down a notch from default in one to one conversations in a quiet environment in the General program. I find if the water faucet is running in the kitchen and I turn on the garbage disposal that’s in the same sink, I can’t hear the garbage disposal. Putting gas in the car today, I couldn’t hear the pump running. My spouse was sitting inside the car with the window rolled up and she could hear the pump. I can’t hear the bathroom fan running when I’m 10 feet from it on the same floor but my spouse can hear it upstairs
When I talk, my s’s sometimes are a sharp hiss. Lowering the volume helps some. I’m wondering whether these types of situations have to do with the type of domes (open, dual vented) or the fitting needs adjusted or what?

I went to a restaurant and a coffee shop with 3 other people and mostly could hear them ok. Not as clearly or flawlessly as I’d like. I still miss or mistake a few words at times or ask for a repeat. Neither venue was exceptionally large or crowded but there were some other diners and kitchen noises. At one place a little girl started hitting piano keys that nearly made me jump out of my skin. In these settings I tested each of the 4 programs. Airplane and Noise seemed to work best for hearing speech but Noise feels like everything is tamped down and a little soggy. The Speech in Noise program I just don’t understand. It just doesn’t seem to work for me. Speech is overwhelmed by other sounds around me.

In the restaurant I was sitting with my back to the kitchen but almost as far away from it as diners can be seated. I had no idea music was playing until someone at my table mentioned it. I could only hear occasional noises that I took to be kitchen noises. But when I said that’s all I’m hearing I was told no one was even in the kitchen at that time. The music was jazz and I think I must have been hearing some notes but missing so many that it was just disconnected sounds to me.

One other item is that I haven’t yet been able to get phone streaming to work. My phone isn’t compatible so we tried to get it to work with a friend’s iPhone today. They would pair and the caller could hear me talking into the iPhone but I couldn’t hear the caller through my aids. High quality phone streaming is important to me (without an extra device) and I’m willing to buy an iPhone but only after I hear how well the streaming sounds. Today, it didn’t sound at all.

I have another Costco appointment this weekend and I plan to get custom molds, see if they can show me how to get call streaming to work and hear what it sounds like, and dump one of the existing programs for the Music program. And hopefully fix some of the other issues I’ve noted. When I called to make the appointment, I told them my type of hearing loss really needs an experienced tech. Their most experienced person is out on leave until Dec but another who’s worked at two Beltone stores had a cancellation that I was able to snag. I’m sharing this because they had no problem with my request. It’s just a matter of whether they have the personnel and when.

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Wondering about that speech in noise program too. There are a couple of differences from the Noise program and one I’d like to adjust is that speech clarifier. It’s off in the noise program but at a max in the speech in noise. Maybe the medium or minimum setting might make it work better? Directionality is also different with adaptive being used in the speech with noise program. I do agree that the noise program does reduce noise but makes everything, even speech, sound muffled.

Did you get tested for Speech in Noise as part of your hearing exam? I only noticed the QuickSIN score among the numbers beneath my audiogram graph recently. Once I saw that, I thought uh oh! Then Neville and some others offered info in other posts and confirmed that in my case a hearing aid just isn’t going to help me with SIN. Not happy about that, but at least now I know that’s one part of the fitting I no longer need to struggle with. We dumped that program at my last fitting and put in the Music program instead. Hopefully your SIN loss isn’t that bad and some HA adjustments and modifications like where you sit when dining with others in restaurants, etc. will help.

I also found Neville’s posts about reverse slope complexities versus pure tones very informative. I’m still trying to absorb it all and put it all together in a way that the dots connect and help me understand what HA settings to focus on that will fix other issues.

I don’t think they tested me for speech in noise at Costco either and not sure how to tell. My costco scores were 86% right and 90% left but I later did a test thru my health care and the scores were 76% right and 80% left and those were with background noise as I recall. I am going in today because this fit4speech fitting is annoying when it come to how sharp and hollow my voice sounds to me and hoping she will go back to the Nal2 with just some high frequency lowering. And other noises are sharp and annoying causing me to again either turn the volume down or use the noise program. I’m not sure why except this fitting turns the gain up a bit on the low frequencies and the high ones are way down based on what I see in HearSuite.

I’m getting a bit discouraged because after 3 months of wearing HA every day for 14 hrs my brain is NOT hearing things with higher gain settings as anything but thin and distorted. I wonder how such a tiny speaker in your ear can be anything but tinny and if any HA would sound differently to me. I also wonder if the delays hearing aid manufacturers are willing to accept (under 10 msec but above 5 msec) of all but Widex HA is playing a factor? Just speculation on my part of course. I don’t want to give up yet because they do help even at my reduced settings, they are now comfortable and the wire fits well (unlike the BiCores which cut into my ears) and zero issues with feedback. Even my initial itching is under control now.

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Costco didn’t do speech in noise when I was tested. They did do masking while testing

Costco didn’t test SIN for me either. Most independent audiologists I’ve worked with in the past didn’t either. Fortunately, the most recent one did.

I thought I’d add an update on my experience with the Philips 9030, Costco and iPhone. It’s now 12 days since I got the aids and 4 days after my first fitting tweaking session. At that session impressions were made for custom ear molds. It’ll be at least a month before those are ready and I’m really looking forward to seeing what difference it’ll make. I’ve always worn vented custom molds and I’m hoping they’ll help with some of the missing and mistaking words and sounds issues that I’m having with the Philips. I thought the Open Bass domes might be helpful, but @Neville thought otherwise as did my Costco fitter. So, I bow to the experts on this one! :slight_smile:

Yesterday my new iPhone arrived and I’ve spent many hours with it getting it set up and figuring out how things work on it since I’m an Android user. For me, this is a huge test of the Philips aids. Because, phone call streaming is essential. Music and video too are so much easier to enjoy when it comes directly to my hearing aids. That all works well. On phone calls the sound is very clear. Recorded music and video too. And the hands free is terrific! Leaving the phone in my living room with music streaming into my aids, I’ve walked into the kitchen and on to the pantry—which is outside an interior door and on the other side of a wall. The music continued. It started fading out by the time I neared the top of the stairs to our second floor.

I’m so glad that’s all working because for the last few days I’ve been on the verge of being disgusted with these aids. Because of the degree of SIN hearing loss I have, I’ve given up on the aids helping with that. They won’t (as has been confirmed by experts on this forum). So, I asked the Costco fitter to delete the SIN program and replace it with the Music program—which he did. He also increased the gain in low frequencies a bit. In the General program, he set Noise Reduction to High and Sound Map Noise Control Transition to Very High. This was primarily in response to these concerns: when the water faucet is running in the kitchen I can’t hear the garbage disposal running even though it’s in the same sink and I’m standing right over it, I can’t hear the bathroom fan from 10 feet away when my spouse can hear it upstairs, I couldn’t hear the pump running while I was gassing up my car though my spouse could hear it from the passenger seat with the window rolled up. With my convertible car top down, it sometimes sounds like staccato screeches, scratches and Wizard of Oz munchkin conversations behind my seats, and the “s”s in my own speech sound very sharp with a mild hiss—similar to a lisp but sharper. I find the default volume too loud and had been routinely turning it down a notch. But I left the default there and since then have been trying to live with it being louder than I like to see if I’ll get used to it. It’s hard for me not to perceive voices as aggressive though under this condition. I have to hold back my instinct to respond in kind and tell myself—this is just loud, not an attack. The person’s actually speaking in a normal tone of voice it just doesn’t sound like it.

Did the adjustments help? I don’t experience the s, hiss as much, but if I need to turn the volume up I hear it again with even a one notch increase. I also hear it in others’ s’s at that volume. What needs to be adjusted to remedy this? I still have to be right outside the bathroom door to hear the fan and the water running still masks the sound of the garbage disposal. In fact, I accidentally left it on this morning because I didn’t hear it and caused a mild fury here—safety concern. I’m hoping the custom molds will help with this. I asked about distorted wind noise in a separate post and was told it’s not a wind distortion but the sound of turbulence when the wind hits the aid’s mic when I’m driving my car with its top down. I’ll be paying more attention to this to see what differences it makes with the direction my car is moving in relation to the wind

My major concern and what’s got me really questioning these aids is missing and mistaking words even when there’s little or no background noise and being able to hear someone speaking from a distance but not hearing enough of the words to be sure about what’s being said. For example, I can still be standing right beside a male friend who has a soft voice and miss some of the words he’s saying. Yesterday I walked around my yard with a forester (female—normal voice, neither high or low or soft) and several times had to ask her to repeat though we were within arm’s reach of each other most of the time. Once, I didn’t even get the name of a tree after 2 repeats so I still don’t know what kind of tree it is. :slight_smile: We went into a furniture store and the salesman greeted us from about 30 feet away. I don’t know what he said specifically. But, even when he was about 10 feet from us (he also was soft-spoken), I missed enough of his words that I tried not to look at him so he wouldn’t expect a response from me and left it to my spouse to ask and answer questions. This is totally unacceptable!! And I think it’s the aids, not my brain…

because when I trialed the Phonak P70s, speech in these kind of situations was crystal clear immediately and I understood every word. Never asked for a repeat. Never made those silly mistakes that have us answering questions that weren’t asked or going down a path that diverged quite some time ago from the gist of the topic being discussed. My spouse noticed this too. My confidence soared! Someone on this forum asked if we’d want to rent hearing aids for trialing. Right now, I’d love the chance to do that so I could be simultaneously trialing the Phonak Paradise. There were other problems (connectivity and potentially a defective pair) that made me give the Phonak’s back after a couple of weeks (cost too), so I don’t know how they would have done in the long run and I don’t want to idealize them (which is why I’d like to be hearing them alongside the Philips instead of in memory). Although I now feel I know what sounding so “alive” means when I compare the Paradise and the Philips. I much prefer the Phonak’s sound—to me it’s more natural, clearer, and feels like more movement—more alive, where the Philips feels flatter, a little dull. Less so when streaming though. Also, I was streaming with the Music program rather than the General program.

The HiFi Music program in the Philips basically has all the massaging and manipulating of sound turned off. And given my limited experience with it so far, it makes me wonder if this might actually be the best option for me. Today, while streaming music, I made espresso (so machine noise), turned on the water faucet in the sink and simultaneously the garbage disposal. I not only distinctly heard all of these sounds simultaneously, the combination didn’t send me running for the hills. Often, with this many different sounds coming at me at once that’s what it feels like—they’re coming “at” me, a barrage. It can make me tense, perspire and if the cacophony continues—irritable. Continuing to listen to the music as I was setting up things on my phone and doing some other work, I also noticed I was hearing a lot of distinct sounds in the instrumentals. Mostly it was piano music I was listening to. Unless this is some sort of distortion, I think a couple of the pieces were sloppily recorded because I was hearing little scratches at times as if someone was rustling paper in the background or moving around furniture. I was listening on Spotify, if that makes any difference. There are so many musicians on this forum, I don’t know if this was my brain mistaking some sound that was actually part of the music or what.

Sound distortion is another issue I’m experiencing at times. Sitting in the living room last night, the window across the room was open. I was hearing high pitch sounds and asked my spouse if she heard birds. First she said no, then yes. This sound would have been coming from at least 50 feet away, probably more. It didn’t sound like birds to me, I just guessed maybe that’s what it was. She said it sounds beautiful. To me it sounded like elongated shrills—visually I saw it as a tiny floating wavy string slowly being stretched out. So I can hear faint, high pitches but not always the way they sound to others and I may not be able to identify what it is. Not sure if that can be fixed by the aid or that part is my brain’s work to do itself. I also wonder if musicians have more issues with how sounds sound like those @fbacher1 brings up. Seems reasonable that they would, having been so attentive to sound quality for so long.

So far battery life is good—but I’m not real hard on them either—don’t stream many hours a day, for instance. The charger works well. I’m keeping my old 312 battery Oticons though as backup and in case I’m ever in any of those situations some here have made me aware of where needing a charger could be a problem.

The Costco fitter I worked with on my second trip is inquisitive and willing to experiment. He was thrilled to be working with an experienced hearing aid wearer who pays attention to nuance and knows enough about hearing and hearing aids to be able to report my experiences fairly precisely and talk things through with him. I don’t know enough yet though—as you see from some of my questions, but I’m so happy to know I’m going to be working with this guy going forward. I even showed him an audiogram I had done earlier this year because there were some differences that I figured were significant from the one Costco did and he was open to seeing it. In the highest frequencies, the Costco audiogram shows my loss 10 dBs higher than a prior audio gram done this year and as some have said on this forum when I asked—that’s enough to make a real difference if aids are fitted 10 dBs off of my real need (whether higher or lower). So I’m going to bring that up with him next time. I think the prior audiogram more closely reflects my hearing in those frequencies (so the current settings in those frequencies may be too high).

Anyone else with observations/experiences with the Philips 9030, please post them here. I find it very helpful to have this all in one thread.

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