Here’s a description of SoundMap 2 plus.
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It looks like the SoundProtect Transient Noise Reduction in the 9040 is probably the same as the new Sudden Sound Stabilizer technology that’s introduced in the Oticon Real. In the Oticon More, it was just the Transient Noise Management with 4 values (Off, Low, Medium, High), but now it’s 6 values (adding the Very High and Max as well).
Does it show any new Wind & Handling Stabilizer (with just ON and OFF)? This is the other new feature for the Oticon Real.
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@Volusiano: We’re back to the old saw about how different the Philips 9040 is from the Oticon Real, where the rubber meets the road.
Would you please run through your analysis of these “so-called sister products” again for us?
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Please don’t do that. We can all find the other threads and read through them if necessary.
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As far as I know, the Philips 9040 is not yet available at Costco. I’ve always appreciated Volusiano’s comparisons of Philips with other hearing aids in the Demant family (Sonic, Bernafon, Oticon). I’d be interested in how the 9040 differs from the 9030 besides what already has been stated here.
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They describe some of the changes:
The latest software now offers:
- Support for SoundProtect Wind Noise Management designed to reduce the impact of wind and handling noise when the hearing instrument is exposed to wind or touched.
- Support for SoundProtect Transient Noise Management to increase protection against unwanted sudden loud noise (very high setting available in Philips HearLink 9040, 7040 and 5040 and maximum setting available in Philips HearLink 9040)
- Support for the new Connection Count feature in Philips HearLink 40. Connection Count displays data on the time the user is talking and in what environments to aid discussion with the client about positive hearing habits and their individual needs.
- Notify Me, a verbal announcement that can be activated in the Philips HearLink 40 hearing aids instead of the battery low indicator beep.
- Tinnitus SoundSupport a new feature in Philips HearLink 40 hearing aids. The hearing aids can generate sounds for use in a tinnitus management program to help clients suffering from tinnitus.
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@Diapason8: Me, too. Until they start selling the 9040 in any numbers, and we begin to get “field reports” back from reliable “reporters” like Tony @Abarsanti and his revealing topic on the Philips9030 (there are no such links for the 9040 - it’s just too new), I think the best we can do is get an engineer’s take on what the new device’s specs might promise.
There’s no harm in that … nor is there any harm in wondering how much various manufacturers '“B teams” now have in common with premium offerings, now that the real promise of OTC price pressure is being felt.
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@jay_man2 → Not sure why there has to be censorship on what folks want to post or want to see posted in this forum, especially if there’s no indication that the post looks like it’s going to be off topic and irrelevant to the thread. It’s so easy if someone doesn’t care to read certain posts in a thread to just skip over it, but it would create a lot of controversy to start telling folks what to do or not to do, especially if one is not the OP who created the thread.
@SpudGunner → to answer your question, basically for sister companies like Oticon and Bernafon and Sonic, or affiliated companies like Philips, they usually share what I’d call “peripheral” technologies, like the frequency lowering, the transient noise management, the feedback management (the basic kind, not the exclusive Oticon-only frequency prevention which they call “Optimizer”). The also share “peripheral” devices like the TV Adapter or the BT streamer (which Oticon calls the ConnectClip), the charger(s) for lithium-ion battery aids, etc.
But what they don’t share is what I call their “core” technologies. For example, even though Philips and Oticon use AI in their core technologies, they use AI in a different way. That’s the main differentiation.
Now back to the 9040 relevancy for this discussion here, the new Sudden Sound Stabilizer introduced by Oticon is not implemented inside their AI DNN (which they call their MoreSound Intelligence, or now RealSound Intelligence). It’s in the RealSound Amplifier instead, which is a signal processing function that’s not considered “core”, but more like “peripheral”. So that’s why you see the equivalent of the Sudden Sound Stabilizer now showing up in the Philips 9040 and they rename it SoundProtect Transient Noise Reduction, because like I said, they do share peripheral stuff.
However, there appears to be NO new feature in the 9040 that would be the equivalent of the Wind & Handling Stabilizer that is the second main feature which is introduced in the Oticon Real. That’s because according to Oticon, the Wind & Handling Stability is implemented inside of the Oticon RealSound Intelligence (the AI DNN). So it’s consistent with what I’ve been saying, Philips doesn’t share the same core technology with Oticon, so the Wind feature put inside the Oticon core is apparently not available in the 9040 because the Philips 9040 uses a different core.
This basically reinforces what I’ve been observing, that these sister or affiliate companies only share the peripherals, but not the cores. And it’s the cores that are the main differentiation between these aids.
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@Volusiano: Thank tou - this is what’s been intriguing me. Just looking it as a layperson, there appears to be a gradual relaxation of Oticon’s grip on their core technologies, but - after reading tour post - I appreciate that my impression is mistaken.
Still,
I think that Oticon may be “feeling the hear” of the OTC" trend.
@SpudGunner → I take it back what I said earlier about the 9040 doesn’t have a new Wind Noise management feature. Apparently from what @chrisb reported back here, it sure does. Sorry I didn’t see @chrisb’s post before I posted earlier.
So that puts a dent in my theory that since Wind is in the Oticon core so Wind wouldn’t be in the Philips core because they have different cores. I’ll now have to do some more research and read up the 9040 whitepaper to understand where they put the Wind management to see if I can reconcile what I said or not. If not, then it’s possible that the 9040 now uses the Oticon core (its DNN), but I’m not quite sure of this yet until I can get my hands on the 9040 whitepaper.
@chrisb or anyone else → if you can find a link to the whitepaper on the new 9040, please post it here and I’d be happy to read to it and offer my analysis.
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!This just proves you have no idea what you’re talking about. Everything you posted was wild speculation. You don’t work for the manufacturer. You weren’t involved in the development of the hearing aids. You’ve never even worn the hearing aids. All you did was read a few marketing whitepapers and fabricated this fantasy explanation that seeks to justify your belief that Oticon is better than Demant’s other brands.
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I 100 % agree. Thank you.
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And you do? If not the same applies to you.
@nqq98392: I don’t know how you manage to parse @Volusiano 's analyses that way. Both MrV and myself are interested in the tactics a highly competent engineering “hub” uses to decide how to dole out/share its proprietary technologies with "sister " companies in a manner that enhances the competitiveness of the latter without unduly increasing the risk of product cannibalism . It’s like walking on the edge of a razor, and observing it during major changes to the market is both interesting and exciting.
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@nqq98392 → wow, such uncalled for hostility! Does anybody here on this forum work for any of the HA mfg that you know about? How I wish there are people who work for the HA mfgs on this forum so we can hear right from the horses’ mouths! All any of the users on this forum have are marketing materials from the HA mfgs, or info from the HCPs. That’s what spur all these discussions of new aids, beside people’s hands-on experience.
When you said that I’ve never worn the hearing aids, you couldn’t even say it right. Of course I wear hearing aids. I’ve worn hearing aids for the last 30+ years. Oh, you meant to say that I’ve never worn the Philips hearing aids? So is anybody who has not worn the Philips hearing aids not allowed to participate in this thread? Please show me where that rule is.
And I challenge you to show me ANY of my post anywhere which I said that Oticon is better than other Demant’s brands. I only said they are different. Please back up you claim.
At least if my analysis doesn’t seem to add up due to new information, I own up to it and clarified what I find wrong with it right away. One wrong analysis doesn’t prove any of the things you say above. And it could be wrong simply because now the companies share the same core but they didn’t before. That’s not a wrong analysis, that’s new information that may make an old analysis outdated. Outdated is not the same as wrong.
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Except, I believe Philips is not a sister company. They are a company that has licensed some of the technology so they are affiliated but not owned by Demant.
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@prodigyplace: Please be more generous with your parsing. I think you understand the general principle I’m trying to invoke.
My point it they are more like a distant cousin than one of the sisters.
This would be like saying Ford hybrids were the same as the Toyota Prius because Ford licensed some of the technology. Toyota did not license all of it.
@prodigyplace: If I concede this point, how does it change the discussion, Bruce?
[Addendum: Let’s not argue about this - can you suggest better nomenclature that’s more inclusive, without being too inaccurate?]