Glad it helped xx
I’ll message you my party piece in private xx
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Thanks @Volusiano for referring me to this very interesting discussion. I guess the only way to really know the benefits of the “clear dynamics” is through the empirical route.
@e1405: Thanks for weighing in, however, as I’ve said before, the empirical route won’t work for me if - in the final analysis - More2s are indicated: I simply cannot afford them.
Yes, I hear you. I can’t either, at least not brand new. However, I consider taking up volusiano’s suggestion and search for a second-handed OPN 1. Problem is that I worry those used aids will die on me.
I don’t think that you’ve acquainted yourself with me: I get my aids from Veterans Affairs.
I’m actually very satisfied with the performance of my More3s, thus far. Our discussion of the potential advantages of Clear Dynamics in More2 is entirely hypothetical.
Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn’t really fit my situation.
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I am not a Vet, but others on this site have said that they got OPN-S1s from the VA, not sure about the Mores, maybe too new??
Mike
I often see OPN1s in the $400 range on eBay.
I picked up a set of OPN S1s with a poor battery for $200.
Keep a lookout.
Mike
As of the first of May the More aids will be available in the VA system. I will be talking to my VA Audi about them mid May.
You are the other I was talking about.
Were your ears ringing??? 
Mike
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My ears ring 24/7/365 ever since Thanksgiving 1975.
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LOL
My mother used to say someone was talking about her when her ears were ringing.
Thanks for your Service.
Mike
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Funny…yes it is.
Question for the Pros.
Oticon has a proprietary fitting algorithm VAC, what happens during REM, I can only assume that the REM tester doesn’t have the same VAC fitting formula??
Let’s assume Oticon knows what they’re doing and their VAC is very good, how do you do REM using NAL or something else??
Just throw away the Oticon setup that seems to work well just to adjust to some other standard that may or may not be better???
What am I missing or do I read too much??
Just got More1 haven’t had REM yet, hearing well so far, still trying different domes to get more base, things sound a little sharper than I’m used to but that could be due to not being at target also.
Thanks in advance.
Your Audiologist should have done the REM test as part of your first fitting, honestly my Audiologist does it before setting some of the custom settings that my hearing loss requires. The REM checks to make sure the aids with my custom ear molds will do what my prescription requires. Then the next level of adjustments are done, that makes the aids respond better to my speech In Noise needs.
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Good explanation, I think. This is what mine does, too.
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I’ll throw something out there that I think is right, but think somebody else will jump in if I get it wrong. To do REM, the audiologist will have to choose a fitting formula like NAL-NL2 and match it. It that’s done, yes you are losing some of the “special sauce” of VAC. I believe Oticon also has some sort of pseudo REM that tries to assure you’re getting the prescribed gain.
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@MDB: I think you’re exactly right. My audiologist and I use REM in the first fitting to check the parameters of the HA against their nominal values.
Thenceforth - assuming that the instruments are working properly - we tend to let the “special sauce” do its magic. As long as the aids’ performance is nominal, I see no utility in repeating REM … but I’m not an audiologist, and I’m willing to be corrected.
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My Audiologist, does the REM test any time there are new aids, aids are repaired or firmware is updated, or changes to domes, or the ear molds. Anything That can cause a change in the acoustic properties or dynamics of the hearing aids and ear molds or domes.
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Yes, Chuck. That’s what mine does - but he doesn’t redo REM if there’s been no changes to the instruments, as you describe. I think that’s a reasonable approach.
I’m not a pro, but if you read this very same thread more carefully way back near the beginning (yes, it’s a very long thread by now), find the posts by Neville who’s a pro and very well respected in this forum and you’ll see the very same discussion by him where he confirms what you suspect, that you can’t target REM to an unavailable proprietary VAC+ target, so if you use a standard like NAL-NL2 as the target for your REM on your Oticon VAC+ based program, you’ll end up with something very close to the NL2 prescription and you’ll no longer have a VAC+ prescription.
The VAC+ prescription has special sauce to deal with special types of hearing loss like the reverse ski slope loss, and maybe cookie bite loss as well. And usually, the hearing aid manufacturers know their hearing aids the best, so they design their own proprietary fitting rationale to optimize the performance of their hearing aids. So yeah, if you do REM on them then you’ll compromise the integrity of the VAC+ fitting rationale.
If you want to truly preserve the integrity of the VAC+ rationale, I’d suggest you ask your audi to do the following: select NAL-NL2 (or whichever standard you prefer as your go-to rationale) for one of the 4 programs and run REM on it with the NL2 target. Note how far off the actual result is from the target, just to know. Then adjust it to the target (if necessary).
Then assign VAC+ to another program and don’t run REM on this one. And if on the NL2, you find that you’re not too far off from the target to begin with, then you know that the VAC+ is probably not be too far off from the target either by association, even though you don’t have a VAC+ target to compare to in the first place. Then use the VAC+ if you want to keep its special sauce. If this is going to be the go-to program, and do this for the default program.
If the NL2 result is far off from the NL2 target and adjustments had to be made, then the VAC+ program is probably far off from its VAC+ target as well (as if there was one). Then you can decide whether to keep the non-REM VAC+ program or not. If it still sounds decent to you and you enjoy it even though it’s probably a little off target, I’d still keep it because after all, it is one of the defining features of the Oticon hearing aids, so if there’s value in keeping it, I’d keep it as well.