Oticon More3 (vs More1) Might Be Capable Enough For Some

Hearing Aids
#204

@sstotz: I’m surprised at your assessment. I was able to upgrade to More3 out of my own pocket, and VAC (Are you Canadian? Or a Veteran? That’s what we call it up here: “Veterans’ Affairs Canada” … not “Canada’s VA”) picked up the legacy costs of the upgrade like warranty on the premium model, loss replacement, etc… I don’t know why VAC can’t negotiate a better deal out of Oticon, but I’m used to the open Oticon sound, and I’d rather stay with it than switch. I had Unitron second-from-the-top HAs, and they didn’t work for me. More3 did the job, however, I found I needed a higher input ceiling (Clear Dynamics?) than the 3s could give me. In retrospect, I probably could have gotten by with More2s just fine.

You won’t get any agreement from me about bad VAC service: they treat me like a rock star! Thank you VAC🇨🇦

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#205

So Volusiano, was all this sound processing and AI razzmatazz in the OPN model I’d tried out way back in like 2018? Cuz I could not for the life of me understand any speech in any kind of noise (Costco check-out, doc’s office with HVAC on and sounding like a roar, restaurant with a few patrons, shopping malls). I simply could NOT comprehend speech even if the person was facing me.

I sure wish you knew Phonak Marvel sound processing like you do Oticon. Cuz that is also by no means perfect for discriminating SPEECH in any kind of noise (echo/reverb like the house I live in, busy restaurants, etc.,).

I’m on the brink of just getting a Roger accessory and pointing the dang pen at everyone like Bob Dole! Speech in noise continues to be my Holy Grail, and even my new audi says the Phonak Paradise is not really that much better than what I’ve got right now. So much for the nuances of improvement in HA tech over time.

Any insights here are most welcome. Granted I have cinderblock ears and even the audi was A S T O U N D E D that I do as well as I do with these aids given my dismal hearing.
But we were sitting in a quiet exam room, so hey, I can do that!

#206

@1Bluejay The OPN models don’t have AI like the More models do. You have a very challenging hearing loss which probably requires a lot of signal to noise ratio performance and the open paradigm is most likely not suited for your kind of loss, even with the AI technology from the More. Apparently even the Phonak models eventually can’t keep up with your hearing loss either. I think your inclination to get a Roger pen is probably the right direction to follow.

One other thing you can try your luck on is the Whisper AI technology that was recently introduced. It’s gotten some traction with a number of posters on this forum and it’s performed well enough for them to sign up for leases on them. Someone with your particular challenging hearing loss may shed some light into how effective the Whisper can really be where others have failed for you.

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#207

Yes I am a Veteran (24+ yrs), I was just trying to make it easier for the non Canadians to understand our system. I tried to get something a little higher than the More 3 as It helped in someways, but made things worse in others. The HA fitter was very good at adjusting them but somethings could not be adjusted to fix my problems. Like not being able to use my phone in the kitchen as the fridge would drown out whomever I was trying to talk to. Also when sitting in the Livingroom reading a book, I kept hearing someone moving around at the front door, but no one was ever there. And with barely over a 3 week test she tried to tell me that they can adjust them more and seemed to somewhat insinuate that I maybe could get a higher model pair after I got them. I don’t like to be pressured so I left. Found some Unitron Blu’s and some c-shells and I am now actually hearing better, not perfect, but no hearing aid can ever replace the original. Am I right?.But I would love to find out how you were able to get them to get a better model, it won’t help me now but in 4 years maybe it will.

#208

Thank you for your service. (I think our brothers in arms from other countries can figure out Veterans’ Affairs Canada/VAC, but thank you for explaining … ). Sounds like whoever was fitting your More3s was not very familiar with them; the refrigerator issue should have been easy to resolve.

As for getting VAC to let me move up to More1, at my expense of $1,500 which wasn’t worth it (I should have gotten More2s, I think, although @Volusiano could explain why some other More1 features are good for my hearing loss): my audiologist talked to the Agent Specialists in the Blue Cross liaison part of VAC and explained that as a veteran/retiree, I teach music as well as French and English as second languages to augment my fixed income. My audi and I needed the premium features to get a suitable fit for my requirements. VAC got back to my audiologist within 10 minutes with the go-ahead.

Let me say this, with due respect, but bluntly, as is my way of going: the Veterans’ Affairs agents are there to help you, but they are not seers and soothsayers. They can’t look into your life and divine your needs - you have to make a good case and get your audiologist to validate your request… My experience is that VAC will never turn you down if you take the trouble to state your needs clearly and put it to them. (The request has to have some legitimate connection to your quality of life.) But they don’t usually grant a request that consists of “the veteran says he would like to have the Advanced model because he likes to have the best $hit …” I don’t know how you have approached them in the past, however, I feel the keys to success consist of (a.) getting the audiologist to go to bat for you and let them do the talking (As Chuck @cvkemp has pointed out in the past - we’d like to think that we are the client in this hearing device game, but, in truth, we are not. The whole industry seems predicated on the paradigm that the audiologist is, in fact the client, and the industry is helping them to treat our hearing loss. They don’t seem to like dealing with us directly, because we don’t, for the most part, know how to “speak their language”.), and (b.) don’t go into the exception request process with a chip on your shoulder.

Voilà - that’s my secret method, in a nutshell.

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#209

I greatly appreciate how you simplify and explain the key issues to us all! I wonder if my audi would also concur about the Oticon being unsuitable for me. I’m just wanting that magic solution and perhaps need to dial back my expectations to fit my reality.

Yes, the Whisper AI appears another intriguing possibility - and they do offer a risk-free trial … I guess I’ve always been partial to having a very good relationship with a local audi who goes the extra mile for me. To rely on a phone app and tech support far away could be a detractor. How I’d LOVE to be a guinea pig and share my real-life experience trying that model out tho… I’m very discriminating when it comes to the nuances of listening: music, speech, noisy places, etc., and would pretty much know immediately if that model was The One.

I LOVE the sound quality of my Phonak Marvels, but in noisy places, conversation is really a challenge. Holy Grail is still beyond my fingertips.

#210

My take on the whisper is they are a little expensive and a little “beta level” in their development. I don’t mind carrying a little extra thing, but I’d like that to be something like my Roger mic that clearly and seriously improves listening in many situations. I can’t tell if the brain is really/significantly helping people hear better, from the descriptions.

WH

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#211

I have a theory, too many of us want to lean on and depend on some device, while I find that my aids are extremely helpful, I still have to work hard to keep my body and brain healthy. Hearing aids a lone aren’t going to improve your word recognition all that much. You have to exercise your brain as hopefully you exercise your body. I read a book at the same time I am listening to it. Sometimes stopping the audio and replaying it over and over. I don’t have to depend on captions and still can watch a movie and read the captions. I do use speech to text on phone calls when possible. I still have extreme difficulty with understanding anyone wearing a face mask. Hearing aids can only do so much, but seem to continually get better.
We also have to be a working component a long with the hearing aids. We also have to partner with our audiologists to improve our aids. We all have to continually educate ourselves to the technology and educate ourselves on hearing loss and how our ears and brain function together. It will be on very simple terms but is needed by all with hearing loss. And something else that had been left out is to educate the general public on hearing protection and how to deal with people with hearing loss. Even most doctors don’t have a clue.

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#212

Hmmm… “beta level” is enough to give one pause. I’m so spoiled with my Phonak Marvels working pretty perfect with Android phone and TV Connector streaming. I really can’t complain AT ALL about those two features.

I totally concur with your observation about not being able to tell if the brain is really/significantly helping folks hear better - at least based on my own experience with the OPN model. Granted, flatlined audiogram is not helping me out much. Brain is trying to compensate for that concrete slab.

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#213

So absolutely WELL SAID!!! It boggles my mind how truly little is actually known about the experience and lifestyle of us who wear “ears”. I also want to build a new relationship with my new audi in a new location, and realize it’s a delicate balance between demands and sharing info. On the one hand, I want this criical tech partner to make my aids work a miracle, on the other, I also like to share info learned here about programs, models, fine-tuning and such. But I don’t want to diminish the experience of my audi lest she feel threatened by what I’m sharing.

I don’t expect my audi to know all the programs available on each make and model they fit, but if they are eager to jump on the phone and talk to someone in tech to find out, that’s a huge PLUS.

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#214

I can’t tell you to number of times that I hit my audiologist with questions and request that he has had to call Oticon support for help with. That is why I always email my issues and request to him at least a week before my appointments. He will come into the room with a print out of my email with his notes in the margins. That speeds up the appointment and allows more to be done without having to make multiple appointments.

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#215

@1Bluejay: @WhiteHat is referring to the Whisper “brain”, which is an extra processing unit about the size of a Zippo lighter that does the “heavy lifting” that the chips in the earpieces are too weak to handle on their own. This extra piece of carry-around is called the “Brain” (or “da Brain”).

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#216

We are both probably extraordinary patients to our audiologists. Mine has made several statements about me that she’s never had a patient that … before, or I stream more than any of her other patients, etc. I’m the first patient at this big VAMC to go for the activevents. I liked that she arranged for and took training with the phonak reps to learn how to do it rather than say we don’t do that here.

WH

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#217

Up until Covid I was at the clinic at least 2 days a week doing volunteer work. The outlook is the volunteers may be allowed back this fall. In the meantime I get emails and text messages and reply to help the best i can. Also I have met with some in church meeting rooms and even at a few local restaurants. Anyway that I can help a fellow sister or brother veteran. I went on a hike Sunday afternoon with my audiologist and we talked about the number of veterans that are coming in now from the conflicts since 9/11. The VA is going to be overwhelmed with hearing loss cases. The clinic here has added 2 audiologists and needs at least one more. My Audiologist said that so much could be handled by volunteers like me if we could get back in the clinics to do so. I have an appointment next Tuesday on May 3rd, to get my annual hearing test and my aids updated. He is going to do a full diagnostic test on my aids before the update. And he has asked me to go to lunch with him and one other audiologist and 3 other volunteers. We are going to try to come up with away around the system if needed to help the veterans get some knowledge about the aids and surviving their aids and hearing loss. Each of the volunteers understand different hearing aid brands.

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#218

LOL!!! Menopausal mind at its finest. I literally thought he meant the jello between my ears.That kinda brain!

Speaking of the “heavy lifter” it looks like it’s wallet sized - there’s a shot of it poking out of a pocket on the website. BIG lifter. :thinking:

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#219

Ditto! Altho back in the day of my long-time audi, I’d just bring the questions with me and he’d hop on the phone if he didn’t know the answer. I swear I had a wheelbarrow full of my visit notes and paperwork by the end of 15 years. Now I begin anew with a new gal much younger than me. She’s super eager and seems like a good find. Oh, and she’ll likely outlive me. Added benefit.

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#220

Thank you so much for your input, it is greatly appreciated! I tried several different hearing aid but most of them limited your trial to 4 weeks and would only do one adjustment per week and I have found it takes much longer than that to start to help you hear better in trying situations. In my case it was try to understand mostly female nurses, and if the were whispering at night it was even worse and using masks in the hospitals really doesn’t help. The HA provider I have now spent about 5 months just trying to get these hearing aids to help me out. Most of that was spent trying to get c-shells that worked right, as my right ear has many twists and turns and one especially narrow part very close to the entrance. So after we found one that fit right we had to work on making it less painful to remove. We’re I live I find it hard to find a office that does all the correct tests and that still knows all the ins and techniques of programming them. Maybe I have to travel the hour to Calgary, instead of the 1/2 hour to Red Deer to find a good programmer that actually uses many different makes of hearing aids. About half of them here only work on 3 or 4 makes and the other half only one make! And one only works with Danish hear aids no others as he believes the others are no good. To each their own I guess.
But thanks again for the info, as maybe I can get a pair in 4 years that can work even better.

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#221

@sstotz: You’re welcome. I’m going to offer you one last bit of advice that you can take or leave. Chuck @cvkemp has said the same thing, more or less - my service cost me a big part of my hearing, and the DND recognizes that by providing me with hearing aids of a quality that I couldn’t afford without the help VAC offers.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT MAKE YOU WERE ISSUED: KEEP GOING BACK TO THE AUDIOLOGIST UNTIL THE DEVICES ARE WORKING PROPERLY FOR YOU, AND DON’T SKIMP ON GAS MONEY!

You’ve probably wasted much more time than the hour’s drive to Calgary trying to get satisfaction from the limitations imposed on you by the outfit in Red Deer.

The Canadian Forces is like a lot of other government bureaucracies - top-heavy and inefficient, but they don’t leave the wounded alone on the battlefield, to fend for themselves.

Keep pestering until they get it right, but take good notes and show them to the audiologist - give them something to work with.

:canada:You served - you earned this right. Exercise it! :canada:

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#222

I travel an hour to get my VA HA services. I am happy to do it to get it right. Jim and Chuck have it right.

I’ll be going back again on Friday. Taking leave from work to do it.

Thanks for your service. I’ve worked with (and for) DND folk from Canada on and off for years, but nothing recently. Most recent was about ten years ago on CWID - Coalition Warrior Interoperability Demonstration. For almost three years my military boss was a Canadian AF Major, as I worked on a joint program.

WH

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#223

For me it is a thirty minute drive but not a lot of miles it is our scenic country roads. This whole area is carved out of a forest. I love it here. I live in a resort community of mostly retirees. This whole area is mostly veterans and service retirees. We have large VA hospitals in several of our largest towns. We have community VA clinics scattered throughout the state. The rule of thumb is that no veteran is more than 30 miles from a clinic and no more that 50 miles from a Hospital. And we have the right to request to go to a private doctor, clinics or hospitals. And between the VA, my Medicare advantage, I am fully covered. I am not paying for extra health insurance. My Medicare advantage pays for my dental. The VA takes care of my eyes, my glasses, my hearing, my aids and all needed extras. Also my physicals and medications. And all labs and health procedures like colonoscopy etc.

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