Oticon More vs Phonak Paradise for speech recognition in background noise?

ziploc · April 5, 2021, 6:17am

Thank you Volusiano. I’ll look into this.

parishd · April 5, 2021, 4:07pm

SpudGunner, this has not been my experience. I hear, or at least think I can hear, the direction of sounds and seem to be able to judge distance as well, both with my Brio2s and P90s. I wouldn’t think it would be different with other HAs.

Is this my imagination, a placebo effect? Perhaps there is significant variability in this perception from person to person? I hadn’t really thought about it before.

Volusiano · April 5, 2021, 4:34pm

I think SpudGunner used a double negative here -> “It does NOT mean that” -> the HAs are not conducive … to determine the directionality of sounds…

So I take that to mean The HAs ARE conducive… to determine the directionality of sounds…

Binaural processing in the More uses Near Field Magnetic Induction to exchange data and audio information between the 2 hearing aids. This helps determine the directionality of the sounds approaching the 2 hearing aids.

parishd · April 5, 2021, 4:55pm

Ahh…, reading comprehension fail… …doh…

Thanks Volusiano.

SpudGunner · April 5, 2021, 5:01pm

There’s a preceding negation, which means the hearing aids are conducive to our brain’s ability to determine the directionality of sounds…

I’m sorry for the clumsy syntax: I KNOW how to write better! Sorry!!!

parishd · April 5, 2021, 5:44pm

No worries, that’s what I get for trying to be clever with quotes.

SpudGunner · April 5, 2021, 6:38pm

@parishd: I really apologize for my difficult-to-understand prose in the text that you quoted.

My excuse is that my 176-piund Newfoundland dog had a seizure the night before, and we were all operating on minimal sleep.

I had a premonition this would happen: I should have listened to the little voice and redrafted it immediately!

sufhl · April 6, 2021, 12:35am

Remote mics can be super helpful for hearing in noise. I find the Oticon remote mics much more reasonably priced, reliable and user friendly than the Phonak Roger mics.

Neville · April 6, 2021, 1:40am

You in bilateral open domes? Do you notice much difference in your ability to localize sound with your hearing aids in versus your hearing aids out? How about low frequency sounds versus high frequency sounds?

mirai.mizuhara · April 6, 2021, 1:27pm

It’d be nice if you could return your Mores for Paradises but I’m not sure how that would be insurance-wise. Hopefully you and your audiologist will be able to find a program that works well for you. Sounds like you hardly got an upgrade ;;

We have CostCo but the KS10 isn’t available in Australia yet as far as I can tell from their website (maybe I checked before they updated it, or maybe they won’t have it for a while). I’ve heard about super mixed experiences with CostCo so I’d rather spend a couple grand extra for peace of mind (plus the service I’m going to go to really cares about how the brain listens).

I might look into the KS10 if they become available in Australia (unless they are and I’m dumb) but I can’t emotionally stand waiting any longer with the state of my hearing in background noise :3

SpudGunner · April 8, 2021, 9:57am

@mirai.mizuhara: I’m sorry, but the logic behind this statement escapes me.

Neither aid will give satisfaction if incorrectly programmed …

mirai.mizuhara · April 9, 2021, 4:39am

The person I responded to trialled the Paradise and liked it more than the More that they ended up getting.

They also wonder if they would have gone with the Paradise had they trialled both.

Sounds like the Paradise was programmed nicely compared to their current aids.

I hope this helps you understand my message.

SpudGunner · April 9, 2021, 6:18am

Yes. I understand now. Thank you.

tweisz2000 · April 10, 2021, 5:03pm

I also tried More1 for three weeks and next week I am trying Paradise and will make a decision about the two of them. One problem with all these discussions is that, since we cannot use the two different HAs simultaneously, which HA pair is better is very much a matter of perception rather then an actual scientific measurement. In addition, I want to note that I will be paying around $7.5k for the pair so the KS10’s seem like a real bargain.

ziploc · April 11, 2021, 1:07am

I’m going to the audi for an adjustment next week. With my previous Opn1 I had to return a few times for adjustments so I’m optimistic that there will eventually be a big improvement with the More.
I have tried several times to download and install Genie 2 but I keep getting a message that the installation failed. Even so I am hopeful that Volusiano’s suggestions earlier in this thread might be a real help.

Volusiano · April 11, 2021, 2:03am

Sorry to hear that you can’t install Genie 2 successfully. Maybe the info below will help to see if your system meets the requirements that Oticon requires to install Genie 2 successfully.

Luga · April 11, 2021, 2:34pm

@ziploc, I too got some errors installing the software. If you do meet the installation requirements kindly shared by Volusiano, you may be able to dig deeper.

In the window that says there was an installation error I found a link to an error log on the bottom left. In my case, the log showed an error number halfway through the file which I googled and pointed to some sort of C++ error.

In my particular case, the fix was to do a Windows update and get my PC current with patches (It was a new system with an initial install and was missing many patches) and then a reboot. Your case may be different.

After I did that, the installation completed successfully.

If you share the the error log in a PM i would look to see if i see anything obvious.

Good luck!

polaris · April 13, 2021, 4:42pm

I had similar issue. Fixed by turning off AntiVirus.
Before running install, go ahead and do a file check for virus.
the install file is good with NO virus.

ziploc · April 13, 2021, 5:01pm

I did finally get it installed. I turned off anti-virus and firewall and still got the installation error. I saw an option for “Repair”. That didn’t work. There was another option for “Modify”. That worked! Why? I don’t know.

billgem · July 8, 2021, 2:43pm

Volusiano:

@ziploc Below is the screenshot for the MoreSound Intelligence page (the deep neural network stuff). Also here’s the link that describes the options in there file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Oticon/Genie/Genie2/Help/en-US/Content/B_Fitting%20flow%20and%20tools/D_Fitting/MoreSound%20Intelligence.htm

It may be helpful if you become familiar with them so you can verify what your audi currently has it set to next time you see him/her, and be able to tell him/her know which value you want for which setting.

For speech in noise, I’d want to have the max value of 4dB for Easy and 10 dB for Difficult in the Neural Noise Suppression. As you can see, in my “imaginary” profile, it defaults to 0 dB for Easy and only 6 dB for Difficult (as indicated by the little Power On icon as the default location). I had to manually changed them to max. If your audi left these settings at the low Default values, it may be why you’re not getting the help with speech comprehension unless you’re in Full Directional value in your Directionality Settings. This is like skipping out on the Deep Neural Network feature altogether, which is a waste since this is the flagship item on the More.

If you need more help, you can “expand” the Difficult configuration to include situation with 3 people or even just 2 people.

If you have a Windows based PC, consider downloading the Genie 2 programming software even if you don’t intend to do any programming yourself. You can create a virtual profile so you browse around the options without having to need any hardware interface to connect with your Mores.

But if you finding yourself liking the Paradise a lot, and that the Full Directionality is the only More setting that works best for you for speech in noise, you may be pre-disposed to prefer to have noises blocked out/suppressed in favor of speech.

But if you were doing fine with the OPN and find the More more lacking than the OPN, it’s most likely that the More hasn’t been programmed to your preferred liking yet, that’s all.

Many More 1 users have reported only modest improvement from their prior experience with the Opn or Opn S. I myself wear Opn 1 and found no discernible difference when I trialed the More 1 for 4 weeks. OTOH, there are some posters who have described their experience with the More 1 as “life changing”.

I wonder if the reason why some are experiencing little or no improvement is precisely because of what Volusiano describes in his linked post. In cases where the audiologist programs the More 1 to its default settings, then the improvement may be only modest, but when Neural Noise Suppression is set to its max (4 db Easy/10 db Difficult), then the listening experience may in fact be a game changer.

That’s my theory, so I’m thinking of giving the More 1 a second look.