Oticon More: Rechargeable vs. disposable batteries

Hearing Aids
#63

What would be nice is if HA OEM’s could get together and agree on a “Qi” standard for rechargeable HA’s. Perhaps someday one might even place or hang aids on a regular Qi charger and get them charged up. That’s the advantage of inductive chargers is that you cut the cord(s) you’re attached to. At one point, McDonald’s, at least in select locations, was going to have charging pads built into its tabletops (no plugs for kids to stick their fingers into and electrocute themselves). And if it were possible to have a more universal HA charger that might give folks a little bit more variety. I haven’t gotten an inductively chargeable iPhone yet but I imagine it will all be the same as with my Samsung Galaxy Note 8. If you use anyone else’s brand for whatever it is, you may void your warranty …

On Battery Management Systems, I think someone has already suggested on the forum that if manufacturer’s wanted to help users practice battery management without thinking about it, all they’d have to do is make whatever with an oversized battery where 80% charged is “100% charged” (and charging is programmed to stop) and 20% charged is “0% charged” and you get dire warnings that you’re out of juice (and the HA’s shut down?!). One would think that one was full-cycling whatever device that one was using and perhaps never appreciate otherwise. Li-ion batteries used to be expensive, now they’re dirt-cheap. (Still the space and programming considerations).

BTW, when Stellantis recently announced that they’re going to come out with an all-electric Dodge RAM pickup in 2024 to one-up the Ford F-150 EV truck, one supposed advantage is going to be a new, all-solid state battery system as opposed to the gel packs used for the Ford. The RAM will supposedly have a 500-mile range as opposed to the 300-mile range for the Ford. If it truly is a superior type of battery, maybe there will eventually be a trickle-down effect to HA’s. If the same range effect were true, that might make HA rechargeables last 1.7x longer (500/300).

#64

This is exactly right, but I thought it was you who suggested it, @jim_lewis.

#65

Lots of debate about this subject, and some points well taken.
I for one, am of the camp that is not about to worry if my rechargeable devices are left on overnight.
I have to think about my body recharging over night!
I’m not a proponent of such things, but for those who worry themselves sick over it, there is a simple cure, similar to that which @jim_lewis has on his ReSound charging case:
This should do the trick. if you’re so inclined.

My 1 year old rechargeable H/A’s, & ConnectClip, as well as 3 year old cell phone, are all alive and kicking, and I charge them every night.
As the “Spudster” would say “YMMV!”

2 Likes
#66

Thanks for sharing this. At first glance I thought it’s a cool idea. But then it doesn’t seem that simple to me. You’d have to know how long to time it so your device would reach a certain charge state. And it can vary depending on what the remaining charge state is. OK, maybe you can calculate it out, but then some devices don’t charge at a constant rate. They may charge faster when they’re at a lower charge state, then slow down when they reach a higher state.

For an engineer or a technical minded person, they can probably figure this out. But for non-technical folks, it may be too much of a hassle for them to figure it out. And even if they have a formula given to them, I’m not sure if they’d want to bother run through the calculation each time anyway.

I have an IBM Thinkpad laptop that has the smart to stop charging at a predefined state of charge, or start charging when the battery gets so low as defined by you. But not all laptops do this. The manufacturers of all lithium-ion based devices should include a BMS in a perfect world, but then they maybe they don’t want to because it’d hurt their replacement/upgrade sales.

1 Like
#67

@Volusiano, as an EE, is it true to your knowledge, that when a device shows 100% charge, it’s actually approximately. 95%?
I was told by an EE that Li-Ion batteries have built in limiters, just to keep them from going as high as 100%.

#68

:+1:t2:Another example of the gems of wisdom to be found in the bowels of the Forum!

#69

Lithium-ion certainly has limiters for not overcharging and to cut off drainage after it gets so low, but more for safety rather than for longevity. Safety is the foremost concern in the mfgs’ mind because if their batteries catch on fire, it’d ruin their reputation and brand. On the other hand, I would think that BMS for longevity is of the least concern, even intentionally lacking sometimes, so that mfgs can gain newer device sales.

If you look at it this way, if you have the same size battery as your competitor, and assuming that both your devices and theirs drain at the same rate, and you put in BMS so that your battery can last longer lifetime wise, but at the expense of the daily use cycle being shorter than the competitor’s, because the competitor leaves out the BMS for longevity so that they can tout a marketing claim of longer daily use cycle than yours, then who’s going to win out? Mfgs would want to eke out every ounce of that battery juice so they can claim the longest lasting daily use, because even if they don’t want to do this for the sake of longevity, their competitors will.

Electric car is a different story. The mfgs there want to market and tout their EV to last 100K miles with minimal capacity degradation, so they’re forced to put in BMS in place with longevity in mind. But the laptops and other consumer electronics running on batteries with only a few years life cycles, why bother and lose out to competitors? Most consumers are not even aware of the battery longevity issue in the first place. Also, for devices like laptops where batteries are more easily replaceable, why even bother, especially if that also means you lessen your chance to sell more replacement batteries?

2 Likes
#70

I have been thinking this.

#71

Can you please explain this? The charger works with any usb charger as long as the charger never shuts off after a full charge. I don’t know what you mean by this but I just bought brand new Mores and haven’t had any problem charging them at home with plug into electric. However, while camping I recharge via USB and then the right hearing aid quits charging after a couple of days. First time thought it was a fluke and got a new charger base. But since it just happened again…that tells me there is a problem with charging via USB. Anyone else having this problem?

#72

When you say charging with usb or you talking about a battery backup charger, if so they are designed to shut off after the battery drain gets so low, and I guess some usb charging hubs do the same thing. For the hearing aids o charge correctly chargers green light must always be on hen plugged in to the usb charger or hub, if it isn’t then it is the wrong type of usb for the hearing aids charger.

Read his carefully

#73

IBM hasn’t made a Thinkpad since 2005; so you definitely have an oldie but goodie!

1 Like
#74

It’s a Lenovo Thinkpad refurbished laptop that I bought and the refurbished labeled is dated 12/04/16, so it’s not that old as in 2005. I think Lenovo is the laptop brand for IBM.

It’s still working OK, but I’ve since moved on to 2 different Acer laptops that are lighter and faster. But the Acer laptops don’t have the BMS smart like the IBM/Lenovo offers, however.

#75

I have that booklet & read it twice & also asked the audiologist if I did anything wrong and she said NO, she doesn’t know why the right side quit working/charging. The cord from the charger is built in so you can’t use the wrong one/kind. I’ve been using my van plug for years & have had no problems with my iphone or small fan I use at times when I don’t have electricity at the campsite. I specifically asked if it could be my car adapter/USB but again she said no. This is the charger it came with, I do not have a battery backup. Now I have to charge one hearing aid at a time in the left side.

#76

If it is only one aid then either the aid is bad or the charger is bad. Also I hope you know you can only charge the aids in the correct side of the charger, the charger and or the aids are smart enough to know if they are n the charger incorrectly.

#77

@cvkemp: Chuck, are you sure of this assertion? I thought it was simply a case that - physically - the left aid won’t fit into the right recepacule because of its shape.

If the HAs are charged by electromagnetic induction, there are no polarity issues to worry about. And it’s much more likely that one of the coils in the charger is defective than a hearing aid.

#78

There was a warning in the instructions on the OPNS1 aids to not cross them up. I did once and the leds never stopped flashing. And also my Audiologist warned me to not cross them up in the charger. Logic says Mt in two different chargers .

#79

Well, @cvkemp, Chuck, I’m definitely wrong about the physical fit: my More1s fit into the wrong side just fine.

Sorry.

Let me check the manual …

#80

Yes they will fit in the wrong side have done it with my OPNS1 aids, now the More1 aids seem to fit a slight bit tighter.

#81

My Charger 1.0 miniRite R charger instruction book contans one instruction and no troubleshooting references regarding which side the hearing aids are inserted into.

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If this instruction had catastrophic consequences if not followed, I’d expect to see a warning such as: “Failure to insert the device into the correct side of the charger will cause irreparable damage to the hearing instrument, and will render void the product warranty.”

I’m not saying that you’re wrong in saying that the HAs won’t charge if they’re inserted scorrectly - just that this is a pretty milquetoast admonition if there were a real risk of damage.

That’s my opinion, anyway.

1 Like
#82

My OPNS1 aids flashed the red led over and over