Oticon Genie Fitting Software for Epoq open fit aids

I was fitted with Oticon Epoq open fit hearing aids the other day. After the initial setup, the audiologist asked me how they sound and I said they sounded extremely tinny. He then selected another setting which greatly reduced the tin sounds. I asked him what he did and he said he set the aids to the manufacturers recommendations.

However, later when I was looking at the display I noticed a graph and asked the audiologist what the graph was indicating and he said he thought that the line indicated the gain that was being applied by the hearing aid and the shaded area was the maximum gain of the aid (2cc coupler gain).

After I left his office I discovered that the aids didn’t appear to be performing that well and started to think about the graphs that I saw during the fitting process. Since my audiogram indicates that I have a high frequency loss in both ears (about a 40 DB loss at 1500 Hz to about an 80 DB loss at 3000 Hz), I wondered why the graphs indicated that only about a 15 DB gain was being applied for those frequencies. This is strange since the specifications indicate that between 40-50 DB gain (using 2cc coupler tests) should be able to be applied for those frequencies.

Next week I have another appointment with the audiologist and I’ll ask him to increase the high frequency gain but I’m not sure that I’ll be able to stand the extreme tinny sound. Even at the current setting, I occasionally hear the tinny sound and when I do, clarity appears to suffer.

Why do the Epoq aids produce such a tinny sound? Is it caused by a poor quality receiver (speaker) or by some other issue with the aids?

Previously I was fitted with Widex Inteo CIC hearing aids that have similar maximum gain characteristics as the Epoq (but about 5 DB greater) and they were much clearer (no tinny sounds and voices were clearer) but I still had some problems hearing certain people so I tried different aids. However when I tested my own hearing using my computer, those hearing aids only produced gains of between 20-25 DB in those frequency ranges (1500-3000 Hz). I initially came to the conclusion that the limited gain was caused by the accustics of the ear but now I think that the hearing aids were set to only develop that much gain.

I now realize why my hearing has not improved as much as I had hoped. With either aid (Inteo or Epoq), a 15-25 DB gain will probably not allow me to even minimally hear voice harmonics between 2200-3000 Hz and will probably only allow me to minimally hear voice harmonics at 2000 Hz.

So with all the available maximum gain of the aids, why is the default gain set so low? Is feedback causing the aids to be set with so low of a gain? If I was fitted with the Widex Inteo BTE model with a similar maximum gain (5 DB more) as the CIC (but a fitting range of 10 DB more), would this help me get much more gain or will the increased gain only be slight since both the CIC and BTE aids are occluded aids?

This is why every hearing aid sold should be verified in the ears, using speech mapping or another type of REM.

By taking such measurements, we can then tell what the hearing aids are actually producing in the ear and make adjustments to match the hearing loss properly. We often find spikes in the high pitches that we can round out so patient’s dont’ get so much of the tinniness.

Have your Audi/dispenser do some type of REM measurement, otherwise he/she is just guessing.

OK, that probably explains the tinniness. But is it normal that the aids are programmed to develop such low gain for the default setting when the need appears to be much higher? And if the tinniness can be adjusted out, can the aids then be adjusted closer to the maximum avaliable gain of the hearing aids? If they can, what would probably be the maximum gain that can be expected for an aid such as the Epoq?

It is possible that the tinniness in the Epoq is by default much more prone to occur than the Widex since the amplification curve for the Epoq peaks at about 3000 Hz and then drops off where as the amplification curve for the Widex is fairly flat between 2000-3000Hz. In other words according to the amplification graphs, the Epoq amplifies about 10 DB greater at 3000 Hz compared to 2000 Hz where as the Widex amplifies all frequencies between 2000-3000 Hz within 2 DB of each other in that range.

I would have to agree with Admin, i would say even if you acheive a perfect match on the target. Ask your audi to do the following after he has verify the gain, Ask him to use the sound studio for fine tuning this should yield a better result.


I have another problem with the Epoq hearing aid. Even though I previously wore the Widex CIC and the Phonak Micro Power BTE hearing aids for about 10 hours per day without problems, when I wear the Epoq for more than 2 hours, I get a headache and have to remove the aids within 3-5 hours since the headache becomes intolerable. I’ve only had the aids for 3 days but each day the same thing occurs (initially the aids are extremely comfortable, then a headache occurs within 2 hours, and finally becomes intolerable within 3-5 hours). About an hour after I remove the aids, the headache disappears.

The headache always starts near the right ear, spreads to the right side of the head, and eventually spreads to the left side of the head if the aids are left in the ears long enough.

Any ideas what could possibly be causing the headaches?

Real dynamics or perhaps you need the identity to be switch… To a slower one.


The first pair of molds i had caused alot of irritation and gave me headaches. Also when the audiologist set my epoqs to i think Dynamic? the sounds that poured into my ear gave me a headache instantly…

I would really like to learn how you managed to tweak your epoqs since i believe i am in the same boat as you.

I’m sure the Epoq hearing aids are very good aids for many people but the headaches that I have experienced have made me very uncomfortable with those aids. Along with the anoying intermittent tinniess sound from the aids, I don’t currently feel that I want to continue trying to be fit with the aids.

I’m sure that the problems can be worked out but I’ve been feeling exhausted since I was fitted with the aids and don’t think I could tolerate the aids if the problems were not solved quickly. So I’ll probably return those aids next week.

Mike F, did you prefer the Widex? I will be getting my first set of aids January 1-2 due to insurance coverage. I was leaning towards the Epoq, but my brother just got Widex Inteos two weeks ago and says there are greta and it took 1-2 days to get used to them. So i’m again confused?

I have heard mixed reviews about the inteo, specially about the audibility extender. I have heard from clients that while after a while the speech discrimination improves it still sounds real wired…
I have heard better reviews about the aikia… So perhaps you might want to consider this also…
Do remember Inteo and epoq are different instruments…

Inteo is about frequency transposition while Epoq is a wireless bianural instrument…
My guess is that the industry is not really going that way, While Siemens had pioneer in the wireless, Now Oticon had introuced the Epoq with sucess and Phonak is going to also introduce in 2 weeks a new wirless hearing aid…

SO for my money, i bet the industry is not really betting in frequency transposition but instead in the posibility of a wireless aids…

Finally, another topic which had not been talk in the forum is trainable hearing aids, a very cool feature available in the high end Phonak, Oticon Epoqs and the Siemens


For me the Widex Inteo was far superior to the other two brands that I tried but the results could be different for others. I was initially wowed by the clarity that was produced by the Widex Inteo. The only reason that I tried the other aids was that I was still have problems hearing my girlfriend and son (both talk softly) without asking them to repeat themselves but the Widex aids were a very great improvement in conference rooms, at resturants, bars, stores, and talking to people on the street.

I suspect that if you have a good audiologist (which I don’t think I have), either the Windex Inteo or the Oticon Epoq can be fitted correctly.

Neither frequency transposition (probably pretty useless) in the Widex Inteo or wireless capability (pretty limited) in some other aids was a factor in selecting a hearing aid for me.

i wouldnt say that frequency transposition is useless…
It does improve speech discrimination the real problem is that
a) it is kinda hard to measure dead cell region - the standart i belive is the ten test - we dont really have a machine so the user have to have experience b) the frequency transposition needs a lot of time to get used to -> so people usually reject it upfront…

This however, do not seem to be your case.

Paxil Problems

I have been trying the Delta 6000 and recently am trying the Epoq. Epoq is a little larger and less comfortable to wear, but has volume and program control which will be good when set up properly. Delta still after many weeks of changing has loud background sound but better.

Anyone have experience between the Delta and the Epoq? I am confused as to which to delect for the longer term.

One bad thing I must say about delta is that it does not have
a remote control. the epoq is wireless and it has a streamer which can act
as a remote control…
I know for a fact that the company does not believe in this but i still think
it will be nice to have it. I must say phonak has done an excelent job as far
as conceling a remote control. The remote control on the key chain
i think is something very clever and discrete…


Mike F, Does Widex Inteo has T-coil? What does the ppl’s voice sound like? Does the sound stay true to the speakers’ voices?

I believe that the Inteo has a T-coil in all version other than the CIC and the new m series (micro open fit).

For me voices were extremely natural (just like they should be).

Thanks Mike F. I really like ppl’s review about hearing aids. It gives more insight to the particular model. I hope more ppl give more reviews their trial experience.:slight_smile:
I wish inteo had T-coil in the m model. I just like open fit. The hook, tube and the big mold of the regular model just give me too much pain:(

The technology has improved a lot and make the speech more natural. That is a great relief to us!!
Phonak still has yet overcome this problem. I read a lot review complaining the robust, tinny and harsh sound.
I think Siemens, Resound, Widex have done a good job so far!

widex has always been characterise for being real confortable

When I started fitting hearing aids I remember that the Senso

was real confortable…

Big Tits live

It could possibly be because you are sensitive to the wireless waves from Bluetooth. It’s like talking on your cell phone all the time…all that exposure could cause a headache.

Good point. I hadn’t thought of that, but it makes sense - the aids are sending out a broadband signal to communicate with each other. Many people get headaches from Bluetooth.