My Phonak Sphere Infinio I90 vs Lumity L90 Shootout

[JordanK]

Hey everyone,

Just got back from my 3 days business trip to Dallas and thought I would write up a detailed report on how the Phonak Sphere I90 hearing managed through a number of interesting (and common) travel types of hearing scenarios. I did post a short teaser of this information in another Sphere discussion thread but I wanted to post more details. Here we go…

The trip included flying from Toronto to Dallas for a team meeting (I work for a USA based IT company). The team meetings (in a conference room) went on for 2.5 days and included team dinners each night in a very busy and noisy restaurant along with hanging out with my team members in the hotel lobby. Before heading back to Toronto from DFW on Wednesday night, I attended a few customer meetings before jumping on a flight back to Toronto. This is a very typical business travel type of scenario.

AIRPORT
I had zero issues hearing anything or anyone at the airport. This included parking the car, checking in through airport security and USA customs, understanding the cashier when buying a bottle of water, and understanding all announcements at the gate before boarding the plane (updates on boarding, announcing boarding zones, instructions to have ID ready, etc). The Spheric AI noise reduction program cycled on/off depending on the noise levels of the environment. The airport seems to be the perfect scenario for the AI program as most of the noise that interferes with speech understanding is spread across the environment (I call this “General Hubbub”) and the Spheric program really knocks this type of noise down quite well. Verdict: Major improvement vs Lumity. I previously really struggled with gate announcements and I understood everything quite well on this trip.

AIRPLANE
Not much to report here other than the Sphere’s work well on the plane. I could understand the announcements in flight. When the stewardess came by to serve drinks, I had zero issues. Just like the airport, the Spheric AI program eats plane noise for lunch. Only thing I did was turned down the volume on the hearing aids after the drinks were served so prevent chewing the battery during the 3 hour flight. Verdict: Improvement vs Lumity.

HOTEL AND RESTAURANTS
The Spheric AI noise programs kicked butt here. They allowed me to hear while eating at the free breakfast buffet in the hotel lobby. They were superb in the three busy and noisy restaurants that were arranged for my team dinners. There were times at the restaurant when I still struggled to understand someone but that only occurred when I accidentally blew past the 3 hour Spheric AI program limit that is programmed into AutoSense. Once I figured out that the Spheric program was no longer engaging (no warning is given), I was able to turn it back on via the manual Spheric program that my audiologist setup for me. You just have to be careful that you don’t chew through all the battery if you think you are going to be in the noisy environment for more than 5-6 hours. The following night I actually charged the Sphere’s back up to 100% just before going for dinner and i ended the night with a good 50% of the battery left. Verdict: Crazy improvement vs Lumity.

OTHER STUFF
The Sphere’s did well with my customer meetings. Were they better than Lumity? Probably equal or slightly better. The real value of the Sphere’s is the Spheric AI program, the bigger battery and the better energy efficiency that allows the Sphere’s to go all day and still have 50%-60% battery capacity before going to sleep. After getting back to Toronto, my wife informed me that we were invited to one of her client’s 70th birthday party at an event venue. We went last night and once again, the Spheric AI program came to the rescue. Picture a large room with 100 people eating dinner and with a big dance floor and loud music. I had no issues hearing the people sitting next to me at dinner. The only weird thing was the way the Sphere’s flip to the Music program when there is music and dancing going on at a party. You sorta have to decide if you want to enjoy the music or enjoy conversation and then use the manual Music and Spheric AI programs accordingly. It’s not always perfect (someone wants to talk when the music is blasting) but it’s orders of magnitude better than other hearing aids that I have tested or owned.

That’s my report. I would be more than pleased to answer any specific questions. The Sphere’s aren’t perfect but they really kick ass in noise. I have noticed a few people report that the Spheric AI program didn’t do anything for them. I honestly don’t understand this at all. Perhaps the Sphere’s weren’t setup properly or the person wasn’t in a noisy enough environment for the Sphere program to kick in. I guess it could also be that there is less of an improvement for people with certain loss profiles or open fittings, etc. Not really sure. All I can tell you is that these things work well for me.

Wishing everyone an amazing weekend.

Jordan

[jim_lewis]

@JordanK

Only thing I did was turned down the volume on the hearing aids after the drinks were served so prevent chewing the battery during the 3 hour flight. Verdict: Improvement vs Lumity.

Great report! Thanks for all your detailed descriptions. Your past reports and a recent bad restaurant experience with my past HAs made me want to try the Spheres. My HA experience and usage scenarios are more limited than yours but I’d agree they’re the best HAs I’ve owned. I trialed the Lumitys for about two weeks and find the Spheres better even in non-noisy everyday listening situations. I liked the excellent sound localization of my ReSound Omnia M&RIE receivers. Maybe it’s the four mics on each Sphere, but Sphere sound localization for me is excellent, too (YMMV). I do find when Sphere noise reduction kicks in that a voice sometimes has a little warble to it as if processing is eating into the voice a bit, but just as you say, the SNR improvement is amazing.

The one thing that puzzles me about your report today is the remark I’ve quoted, that turning down HA volume muzzles Spheric noise processing. Why not just switch to a manual non-Sphere program?

[JordanK]

@jim_lewis

The one thing that puzzles me about your report today is the remark I’ve quoted, that turning down HA volume muzzles Spheric noise processing. Why not just switch to a manual non-Sphere program?

Good question. I was initially worried that the Spheric AI program would remain on during the whole flight and chew up the batteries. After we got to cruising altitude, I went into the App and checked which program AutoSense had selected during flight. Turns out AutoSense was in “Comfort in Noise”. I think it picked this program because there was little to no speech being detected in the cabin and the only noise was engine and fan related noise. That being said, I wanted to nap a bit during the flight and the engine and fan noise in the cabin was annoying. I decided to turn down the volume (vs. turn off the hearing aids) so that I would still hear if the stewardess rolled by with drinks. I may just create a new program for Airplane use.

Jordan

[JordanK]

In case anyone wants to see what I look like, here is my wife and I at a crazy (and very NOISY) Russian 70th birthday party last night. They had this weird 360 degree spinning camera thing setup that recorded you dancing “in the round” on a pedestal. If you look really closely at my ears, you can see my silver Phonak Sphere’s sticking out a bit again my darker (grey) hair. My audiologist is going to swap these silver Sphere’s out for the darker graphite coloured ones when they are available in December.

Crazy that I can now hear again in an environment like this. In the past, I would stress about being invited to a party like this.

Here is the big reveal video. My wife is the star of this video. I’m just the “Plus 1” …haha.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/00ajTYSX8oHDID9DJstbJcj-Q

[Bimodal_user]

@jim_lewis

I trialed the Lumitys for about two weeks and find the Spheres better even in non-noisy everyday listening situations.

Really? I thought that in quiet environments, there is little to improve in terms of, for example, sound quality compared to older HAs. You mean the better processing power of newer hearing aids makes sounds better?

@jim_lewis

Maybe it’s the four mics on each Sphere, but Sphere sound localization for me is excellent, too (YMMV).

I think there are 2 mics on each Infinio Sphere, the four holes are simply the inlets for sounds, 2 for each microphone.

@JordanK, does “Noise reduction” slider in myPhonak modify the denoising power in the Spheric Speech Clarity program?

[JordanK]

@Bimodal_user

@JordanK, does “Noise reduction” slider in myPhonak modify the denoising power in the Spheric Speech Clarity program?

I’m in a restaurant right now and I just tried it. The slider in the Spheric program definitely allows you to adjust the denoising power.

Jordan

[Bimodal_user]

Maybe it’s a way to save some battery life by setting denoising as much as necessary to not overkill.

[Zebras]

@Bimodal_user

@jim_lewis

Maybe it’s the four mics on each Sphere, but Sphere sound localization for me is excellent, too (YMMV).

I think there are 2 mics on each Infinio Sphere, the four holes are simply the inlets for sounds, 2 for each microphone.

I was also told there are only two mics on the infinio sphere but four holes.

[Nenen_UK]

Hi @DaveUK
Thank you so much for your detailed response - I really appreciate this extra information and have now ordered some Spheres through Specsavers. I’ve been told it could be up to 2 weeks for them to arrive and am really looking forward to testing them out.

I have one more question if you don’t mind; you mentioned your Specsavers audiologist had to download KS10 (Phonak Paradise) settings onto their system to program your spheres. Will they have to do that for mine given that I’ve never had Phonak HAs before and have only ever used domes or is there anything I can let them know they will need in advance of my fitting appointment?

One thing I’ve learned that might be useful information for your own trial if you don’t already know… the Specsavers audiologist I spoke to when I placed the order told me that the 100-day trial period starts from the date the order is placed, NOT the date they are fitted. Given my 2-week waiting time from order to fitting, this significantly reduces the trial period. However, as Specsavers have a very generous 100-day trial period, it’s still far longer than the 30-day trial period I was offered at the most expensive (over £5,000) supplier and they told me at that place they charge a £50 sterilising fee for returns too!

[Um_bongo]

Is that a 100day ‘refund period’ not a trial?

Have they already taken your money?

A free trial here, means just that; you walk out the door with a set of demos on for free. Paying for something in full and then entering into the ‘refund period’ within their T+C’s is a bit of a step into legalese………

[BarryH]

Specsavers used to be a 90 day return/refund period, they probably increased it to cover the order time. As @DaveUK mentioned on his 3 visits he has been seen by a different person. Because Specsavers is a franchised business they will have a number of branches under the one franchise. They normally rotate staff to cover the other clinics plus home visits. Also they tend to use independent audiologists.
I have had trial/return periods with Specsavers on more than one occasion, no problem with a refund, but on the second return, politely informed there would not be a third, which I think is more than fair.

[JJTheJetPln]

This is a great question. Here in Ontario, Canada, the general consensus that I’ve had from audi’s is that the “trial period” requires us to pay up front for the hearing aids, and enter into an agreement that if we don’t like the hearing aids before the 30 days or what it may be is up, that we return them for a refund.

It certainly doesn’t sound like a free trial in that regard if we’re paying for the audi’s time to do the hearing test, programming, REM, and so on. It’s more like a contingency fee. The fees are contingent to you liking the product, or you get your money back. I feel like I’m diving into semantics and pragmatics, but I agree about the step into legalese.

[Nenen_UK]

Hi @Um_bongo
I wish I lived nearer to you! If you are able to do a completely free trial in Wales, how do you ensure customers don’t do a runner with £3K+ worth of hearing aids?

Specsavers in East Anglia, England told me I have to pay the full cost up front and then return them for a refund if I can’t get on with them. Likewise, Audiological Science said the company ‘appreciate being paid in full on fitting’ but when pushed said they would accept half payment up front and the remaining half by the end of the trial period.

[Um_bongo]

@Nenen_UK

how do you ensure customers don’t do a runner with £3K+ worth of hearing aids?

We just fit demo aids and take a full contact details. I’ve not ‘lost’ any demos in 20 years - the odd one is damaged etc.

I appreciate you saying you’d like to come here though.

[DaveUK]

@Nenen_UK

I have one more question if you don’t mind; you mentioned your Specsavers audiologist had to download KS10 (Phonak Paradise) settings onto their system to program your spheres. Will they have to do that for mine given that I’ve never had Phonak HAs before and have only ever used domes or is there anything I can let them know they will need in advance of my fitting appointment?

@Nenen_UK , the reason they did this for me was because at a follow-up appointment, I mentioned that I had slightly better intelligibility with the Phonak Paradise than with the Spheres. So they offered to look at the settings of the Paradise (which had been tweaked over time to my liking and were not purchased from Specsavers) and make similar changes to the Spheres. This was done and improved the intelligibility for the Spheres. This was very specific to me and not something you would need to discuss with your audiologist. The fact that they were willing to do this showed flexibility on their behalf.

I specifically asked them when the trial period would end, so there could be no costly mistakes on my side should I wish to cancel. There was some confusion over the “100 days”. The date they gave me was not 100 days from either the day of purchase or the day of fitting (it was more like 90 from date of purchase), but they did say it could be extended further if necessary. I need to clarify this on my next follow-up appointment.

Note that their website clearly states that the 100 days is from the day of fitting. See Hearing aid aftercare | Specsavers UK. Although they do make a mistake with the number of asterisks, the meaning is clear.

[jim_lewis]

@Bimodal_user

I think there are 2 mics on each Infinio Sphere, the four holes are simply the inlets for sounds, 2 for each microphone.

@Zebras

I was also told there are only two mics on the infinio sphere but four holes.

You and Zebras are probably right. The following Applied Hearing Solutions YouTube video shows one of Dr. Cliff’s audi associates putting a cleaning brush through one microphone port to the other on a Paradise HA body (probably not recommended!): https://youtu.be/xBt0mY-dGRA?t=141

As to why I think (and find) the Infinio line is better than the Lumitys, the reasons are given in the Welcome to the New Era Audiology Online course by Aly Hoffman that I mention in the following post: My Phonak Sphere Infinio I90 vs Lumity L90 Shootout - #416 by jim_lewis

If you register for free and sign up for the course, you’ll be able to access the course transcript and slides. I’ll quote them and tell you where to find the quotes and slides I show here.

First, the Infinio line is better than the Lumity’s because it has the far more powerful New Era chip for basic audio processing (the separate DeepSonic chip does the Spheric noise reduction).

Slide 24

From page 7 of transcript:
Next up, I want to talk connectivity, but we need to introduce our new powerful Phonak era chip. And this is really the foundation of all Infinio hearing aids. And it is the foundation of how we have really taken connectivity and wireless communications to the next level with our hearing aids. So the error chip is powered by 552 million operations per second and 75% more ram for faster processing as compared to lumity. So era is going to improve connectivity even further. Era is also the home to our digital sound processing and improved power management

The New Era chip is considerably more powerful than what’s in the Lumity so just in ordinary listening situations, you’re going to get better, more responsive sound processing.

From page 7 & 8 on connectivity:
Era is also the home to our digital sound processing and improved power management. So we are going to be able to provide additional processing while maintaining or improving battery life. We have a new patented antenna design which is going to take connection stability and efficiency to the next level. And thanks to a six times higher transmission power as compared to lumity, the air chip enables a more stable Bluetooth connection, provides uninterrupted hands free calls and streams to up to two times the distance Page 8 Auracast, BT LE Audio updatable

BT connectivity has more powerful transmission, longer range, more stable, updatable to Auracast and BT LE Audio.

From page 18, New Era chip is responsible for much improved battery life of Infinio line vs Lumitys
With the air chip, your patients are going to have that full day of use. We continue to say that 24 hours with just standard listening alone with your quote unquote average pretty heavy stream time, they’re still going to get about 616 hours a day. I’m very excited to announce that the cross has an improved battery life due to that error chip. So just like your hearing aid, you’d anticipate about 16 hours. The cross will get that as well.

Edit_Update: I’ve recreated below the part lost from my initial post

The ERA chip gives the Infinio line its improved battery runtime. Elsewhere in the transcript, Hoffman says the battery in the Sphere Infinio line is “slightly larger” than in the non-Sphere Infinio IR line, implying the non-Sphere line should also have better runtimes than the Lumitys.

From Page 4 Users Find the APD 3.0 sound of Infinio Significantly Better Than APD 2.0 of Lumitys
And the graph here is showing the targets for APD 3.0 and how they differ from 2.0 for the acoustic signal. We can see that we didn’t need to adjust APD very dramatically, but the changes have made a big impact. So depending on what the acoustics or the coupling of the fitting is, will basically determine whether or not how big the offset is going to be.

Slide 12

Slide 13

Infinio users find increased comfort while maintaining speech clarity, noise is less intrusive, and the overall sound is preferred relative to APD 2.0 (used in the Lumitys). If you combine the black no difference bars with the green for each test, the number of users who find the Infinio sound equal to or better than the APD 2.0 sound is really much larger than the number who prefer 2.0 over 3.0.

Perhaps Lumity users who don’t like the Sphere sound have gotten so accustomed to the APD 2.0 sound that they get put off by the change to APD 3.0 – or maybe because of the sound profile differences, the exact fit that works well for the Lumity doesn’t work as well for Infinios. For example, I liked the default Speech Enhancer setting of the Lumitys. I cranked up the Sphere’s default setting from 14 (moderate) to 16 (stronger moderate) and have no problems with Sphere Speech Enhancement compared to the Lumitys I trialed. I did think the default Infinio setting wasn’t strong enough.

The Infinio line also has AutoSense 6.0 instead of AutoSense 5.0 in the Lumitys. From Hoffman’s New Era course, it’s hard to tell exactly what difference AutoSense 6.0 makes except for factoring Spheric noise reduction into AutoSense automatic programs. However, since AutoSense 6.0 is powered by the much more powerful New Era chip in the Infinio line, it should be smoother and more responsive than AutoSense 5.0 in the Lumity line. When I trialed the Lumitys, I felt AutoSense caused noticeably abrupt, sharp environmental sound changes. The same changes occur in my Sphere. They’re just smoother and less noticeable to me, at least.

[Naw]

That’s awesome! Just curious when you say you could hear them, did you mean you could understand what they were saying?

and thanks for the updates, it’s really helpful

[pmc1978]

@Nenen_UK

but when pushed said they would accept half payment up front and the remaining half by the end of the trial period.

This makes more sense to me.

[JordanK]

@Naw

That’s awesome! Just curious when you say you could hear them, did you mean you could understand what they were saying?

Short answer on speech comprehension is YES. I think one of the oddest things about the Spheric AI noise reduction program is that when it is activated in a very noisy environment, everything sounds kinda weird. Background sounds are weird. Sounds can often oscillate back and forth between your right/left ear. Sounds suddenly get louder and then softer again. That being said, any voices in your immediate vicinity kinda stand out from the weird background sounds and you can not only hear the voices, you can understand them too. It’s hard to describe what it’s like until you actually try it.

Bear in mind that this my own personal experience and some people haven’t reported the same level of benefit. It could be that different setups, fittings and hearing losses benefit more than others.

Jordan

[freezerman404]

The Starkey Edge AI
does a similar thing.
Guess it had to do with the noise suppression.