I know nearly nothing about profound loss. However, I am frequently approached by people who want advice on race cars or bike fitment. So what you say. What I have found is that most searches are not one stage. Usually they take three tries before we get them tailored to the individual. If you don’t presently wear a hearing aid then I suspect that reaching an optimal choice in one step is very optimistic. Minimal trials reduces the odds. Is it possible to buy a used device and begin the learning process. It may not be ideal, likely it will not, but learning by doing is invaluable.
Since you’re young (and possibly have sharper brain hearing compared to older folks) and can do lip reading well, maybe you can discern the target voice better in noise compared to the average hearing aid user. If that’s the case, maybe the OPN 3 can serve you adequately in noisy environments. But that’s a lot of ifs. The only way to know for sure is through a real trial. But I understand if you don’t get a trial period. I would say that if the price difference between the OPN 3 and 1 is significant then it may be worth considering the 3.
I don’t know if you have read my review of the OPN 3 compared to the 1 on this forum yet. If not yet, search for it and read it to get an idea to help you decide.
It was your remarkable piece on the comparison of opn 1 and 3 that inspired me to join this forum.
There are two scenarios to be considered:
In one scenario I am wearing OPN 13 BTE in my class and in the other I am wearing OPN 3. If someone says something in the third back row how will the brain technology help me so that I can hear what is being said?
First of all, I think the OPN BTE 13 pp comes in 3 flavors like the mini RITE -> 1,2, and 3. So let’s talk 1 and 3 regardless whether it’s the BTE 13 PP or the mini RITE.
Second of all, let’s just clarify that brain hearing is just a terminology for the cognitive hearing ability of the brain. It’s not a technology that Oticon developed with the OPN. Oticon develops the OPN technology in recognition that the brain hearing is a very powerful cognitive function that the OPN technology should be developed to support and assist the brain to hear more effectively. I’m being careful with this clarification here because I’ve been accused of implying that brain hearing is an Oticon technology, but people misundersoond me and I want to clarify again that is not.
Having said that, in the scenario you described, if there’s speech coming from the rear, the voice activity detector would detect this rear speech and freeze the Balance and Noise Removal module such that this would make this rear speech sound the same in either the OPN 1 and 3. So as far as noise removal is concerned, there’s none in the Balancing module for directional noise removal, nor is there any on the Noise removal module for diffused noise removal. So while this rear speech is going on, it should sound the same in either the OPN 1 or 2 or 3.
It’s the front speech that would make the OPN 1 more effective than the 3, and only in VERY noisy environments.
Having said all this, I realized that in my review I said that I could not hear people in the third row of noisy van with the OPN 3 but I could with the OPN 1. I attributed this to the 1’s better noise removal of 9dB vs the 3’s only 3dB. In retrospect here, I think I was wrong with that logic because like I said above, the voice activity Detector would have frozen the balance module and Noise Removal module for rear speech. So I supposed the difference in that situation may have been due to other things the OPN 1 being better like speech guard lx and spatial sound lx and binaural noise management , etc.
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Do you know if there is a distance (or perhaps volume) limitation on the voice detection? I’m assuming that voices at a certain distance (or low volume) are not detected as voices.
They don’t say in the spec, but that’s a good point. I’m sure it has to be discernible to be detected as a voice source.
So it’s possible that if the voice detector couldn’t detect the rear speech then it wouldn’t have frozen the Balancing module and Noise Removal module.
I would think that in a classroom scenario, it wouldn’t be that noisy like in a moving van at Freeway speed so the voice detector should be able to pick it out.
I don’t think distance can be computed even if you could distinquish a difference in arrival times. You don’t know where the source is in advance.
I have no idea what is actually done, but there’s a total of at least microphones in the two hearing aids and significant computing power. If somebody wanted to, I would think it would be relatively simple to triangulate and estimate a distance.
Perhaps, reading up on techniques to identify gun shots fired in a city environment by sound, IR and shock waves will provide some insight into the challenges. And the microphones are a touch better. It would be interesting to know if Oticon attempts this. Can ‘normal’ human hearing manage this?
Normal hearing won’t calculate distances, but it can give a decent estimate of the direction a sound is coming from. I think we get other cues that help us guess where a sound is coming from.
I suspect the species depends on hearing to determine azimuth and sight to determine distance in matters of survival. Even so, it is pretty clever in my opinion.
I apologize for diverting attention from the issue raised by tanveernaseem. I took us off the rails. My bad.
Having attended mainstream schools with profound loss I managed to clear my A levels. Now I have to start my Diploma in Advanced Graphic Designing. Usually I am the first to submit projects and feel proud to hear the comments of my teachers. But then when someone taps my shoulders and points out that someone has been calling you cant you hear? I cant sleep for a week. If someone can update me on what hearing aid would suit me best in a laymans language particularly Opn 1-3 or OPN 13 while I attend the Diploma classes it will help me take the right decision. The sentence How are you Tanveer coming from the back row. Which hearing aid will make this sentence audible to me?
Just looking at your audiogram, I’d think an ultrapower aid like Phonak Nadia V, or their new Nadia B.
Resound Enzo 3D in ultrapower version would give you made for iphone.
I personally think that at your age still being in school and all, being aware of the sound environment all around you is very important. Like you said, if somebody is saying something to you from behind, you want to be able to hear them. You’re probably in very complex environments all the times, so automatic and seamless transition between environments is also important. You don’t want to have to constantly be making decision on what environment you’re in then make program changes that suit that particular environment. You want to be able to just put on the hearing aids at the start of the day and forget that you have them on until you take them out at the end of the day, and not have to fiddle with it all day long with this program and that program.
To that end, I think the OPN will give you those 2 things: 1) A constant awareness of everything around you (and your young brain hearing can do the cognitive filtering of what you want to hear as needed), and 2) a single default program that will work and adjust and transition very seamlessly between any kind of environment, from simple to complex. You use 1 default program all day long and don’t need to worry about changing to different programs as you move in and out of different environments at school.
The traditional hearing aids will tend to be more directional to get the kind of noise reduction it needs to have, thereby blocking all sounds around you except to the front. It’ll be hard to pick up sound around you, unless you fiddle with your hearing aids to change between directional and omni as your listening situation changes. You’ll constantly be aware that you’re wearing hearing aids because of the program change fiddling so it won’t be a put it on and forget about it type scenario. There are newer hearing aids models that do automatic environment detection and automatic program change. But whether the environment detection is accurate and quick enough is unknown until you try them, and the program change, even if automatic, is still discrete, going from one program to another. With the OPN, on the other hand, you can stay in the same program (the default program) all the times, and the changes from simple to complex environments within this same single default program is continuous as far as noise reduction application is concerned.
Having said all that, the OPN open paradigm strategy (whether it’s the 105dB receiver miniRITE or the BTE 13 PP type) will only work for you if their 105dB receiver is powerful enough for your loss. If not, then you’ll be limited to ultrapower type aids like the Phonak and Resound offer. But Oticon does market their OPN BTE 13 PP as the product to use for people with severe to profound hearing loss, so I wouldn’t dismiss the OPN BTE 13 PP outright without trying it out in lieu of the other brands’ ultra power version.
First and foremost, you should want to know if the OPN BTE PP 13 is powerful enough for you. If it is, then the OPN miniRITE 105dB receiver version should probably be equally powerful enough for you, although its 312 size battery may not last as long and the 105dB receivers in the canal may not be as reliable as the BTE 105dB receiver in the HA casing.
The decisioin to go between the 1 or 2 or 3 version is secondary to the first reason. I think either of those 3 version will serve you well. It’s just a matter of which level you can afford.
If you say you have to make decisions up front and don’t have trial demo option in your country, then look at the Phonak Nadia V or B and the Resound Linx 3D ultra power receiver specs and see if they’re anymore powerful than the 105dB receiver spec from the OPN in the first place, If they are, then it may help you sway your decision toward them. But if not, then maybe the OPN would be a more suitable type of HA for you given its open paradigm and single unviersal program support.
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I think the 4 microphone system in the 2 OPNs is used to estimate the spatial arrangement of the noise, as seen in the excerpt below.
Figure 4 explains how the depth of the noise source is considered by the null direction (strong attenuation) such that the null direction for noise placed further to the back is stronger than the null direction for noise placed to the side.
Went to the hearing aid clinic. Asked for a demo for Resound 3d power hearing aids. When the audiologist inserted my hearing loss parameters in the computer he said that your loss threshold is outside the range for Resound 3d linx.
He has recommended the Resound Enzo power hearing aids with ear moulds. He is saying that for my loss the domes won’t work.
I want to try the domes version. Is there any chance of success or should I drop the idea?
The distributor for Resound is giving only service warranty for 6 months. Is this a fair policy for such expensive aids?
Opn differentiates distant versus close speech by its modulation rate.
The normal auditory system certainly can perceive distance. Although we’re not as good at it as we are visually, or as we are at localizing sound. We tend to judge close things as too close and far things as too far; the cross-over point is around 1.5 metres. There are lots of proposed cues to use, and not all of them are available in every environment–sound level, reverberation, spectral cues, binarual cues, acoustic parallax, acoustic flow. I’m missing some. The normal auditory system (eyes closed) can make also make reasonable estimates of the size of the room, depending on the surfaces. We take a lot of this stuff for granted. But, from my point of view, hearing is a much cooler sense than vision from a neurological perspective.
(Tanveer, not worth trying domes but I’ve heard a lot of people raving about the Enzo, and 6 months is short.)
My apologies. I meant Resound Enzo when I said Lynx. I will edit and correct. Glad your audiologist is on the ball.
That would depend on what he is charging you. Resound warranty is longer and supersedes his offer. I believe what he is saying is that after 6 months you will have to pay for his further services and that should bring a substantial discount. At that point, he competing with online providers and their pricing structure.