Looks Like Phonak Phased Out The NAIDA and Put it into Their Main Product Line

Hearing Aids
#1

I was browsing the Phonak documentation and came across the information here, which used to be exclusive to the NAIDAs:

Based on everything I have seen, it looks like Phonak has simply combined the NAIDAs with the Audeo line, because of the high frequency sound transpositioning here:

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I’m good with that. So long as I have a UP version with CROS which is compatible. I’m sure I’ll need rechargeables at some point.

If there is no way to get the random rebooting issues on my Oticons fixed, I may have to eat my words and go rechargeables, and go back to Phonak eventually. The random rebooting is a dealbreaker for me (and the fact that there hasn’t been an update to Xceed’s firmware in years) when it comes to sticking with a hearing aid long term. Had no idea the Oticons even had these issues and I am disappointed.

My main criteria is ensuring that 1. A UP powered version exists, 2. It’s also available on CROS, 3. That it has SoundRecover2. And the Audeo UP has all of these.

The fact that it works using Phonak’s latest chipset looks like it would be a massive bonus too.

Obviously, not happening now. But maybe in another year or two. I need to see what can be done with my existing aids while they are under warranty.

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#2

I don’t think so. This datasheet is for Audeo only - no any words about Naida. So Naida has its own datasheet and still different model.

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#3

Thanks for the clarification, LD. Seems like with the Audeo + NAIDA they would be duplicating the product across product lines, since now the Audeo does exactly the same thing as the NAIDA.

I doubt they would be bringing out the NAIDA at all because Ultra Power NAIDAs compatible with CROS have been extinct since right after I bought my last pair, which were the NAIDA Bs, starting with the Marvels.

So, this is something entirely new to accommodate former NAIDA users who need the Ultra Power versions compatible with CROS. Like me.

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#4

I also use superpower hearing aids. And I am worried about something else - superpower hearing aids are gradually disappearing. There are no more superpower Widex, there is no modern replacement for Oticon Xceed, only Naida remains. Soon there will be a choice - either to live as deaf or go to CI.

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#5

Naida is always the last thing out in a new series. Bear in mind it is BTE with tubes not RIC. That and the 675 battery differentiate it further. I own two pair of the Paradise UP just in case. Keep an eye out next year for the Naida Infinio BTE and hopefully with 675 batteries.

I would not be surprised to see batteries only in rechargeable. CROS is another story, but the chip apparently supports it.

#6

Yes @Lostdeaf… I believe, you are 100% correct, OnlyThe Naida Lumity, seems to be left, but on a plus side they are exceptionally good aids! But unfortunately for @codergeek2015 they don’t do a Naida Lumity Cros UP aid… It would appear, Phonak are the only major hearing aid manufacturers, still concerned with (UP & SP aids) but I guess we are a very niche market, perhaps under 5% of overall sales, probably the market is less than 2% for Cros Ultra Power, or Super Power? It is very worrying that most of the major manufacturers appear to have abandoned those whom probably require hearing aids the most… Cheers Kev :wink:

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#7

I wonder if the dual chip sphere is capable of 675 battery or if it will be rechargeable only.?
@Um_bongo

#8

I think not, On the Audeo Sphere deep sound chip in the sphere option consumes a lot of battery power. Maybe if they put in two 675 batteries? The hearing aid could then only be longer by 10 mm. Would that be acceptable, I wonder.

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#9

Not sure: a 675 doesn’t generate twice the voltage, just greater longevity. The cell chemistry determines that.

You can do some fancy zero rail splitting to boost the voltage with a fast clocking power system, but you can’t create power from nowhere. I’m not sure if Sphere can be made to run on it.

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#10

SoundRecover has been made available to all hearing aids for quite some time, it is no longer considered to be a Naida exclusive feature. CROS has also been compatible with other styles for many generations of Phonak devices as well.

Whilst it was initially proposed as an ideal technology for severe to profound losses, which is the focus of Naida, Phonak realized that it had benefits for other types of hearing losses too.

It’s worth noting that whilst yes, many of the severe to profound features that once were unique to Naida have found their way into Phonak’s more mainstream product lines, there are still some unique aspects to the Naida family namely;

  • UP receiver with 84/141 gain matrix (2cc). Whilst the audeo has a UP receiver, it can only achieve 71/132, substantially lower than the UP receiver in the Naida.

  • 675 battery. Severe to profound wearers use their hearing aids ALL day, and need that reliability.
    Whilst rechargeable technology is great for most, it may not necessarily extend to a full 16+ hour day, especially with extended streaming, which means 675 batteries may still be the best battery option for those with significant losses.

  • Housing design that optimizes mechanical feedback at high gain outputs

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#11

I am sure they could create some form of step up, for the increased voltage Stephen, whether that’s feasible, given the size constraints is another matter? But, I would gladly except a 20% larger Naida Sphere, or even 25%, the old Naida Venture was 14% larger than the Naida Paradise (I believe) with the Naida Lumity around the same size… Or perhaps a new “Solid State Battery”, these new batteries (Presently under development in Japan) will allegedly run EV vehicles, for around 600 miles on a single charge, I believe they are much denser than normal Lithium batteries, and basically hold around triple the capacity, for around the same size… Cheers Kev :wink:

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#12

That’s possible, but a totally different engineering issue than making a hearing aid run and last on a 675 battery which needs to be (pick one or more) replaceable, hermetically sealed, oxygen dependent, waterproof, non-explosive, hurricane power-outage proof and longer life than the competition.

According to some of the demands listed on this site.

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#13

Can’t help thinking of the story of the international watch with built in TV and batteries in two suitcases. :wink:

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#14

Thank you Stephen :smile: As my old mother would say, now long departed this mortal coil…” Where there is a will, there is a way” it is my fervent hope, Phonak engineers have that “Will”, then it is highly likely, they will find that “Way”… I personally have no objection to a rechargeable Naida Sphere, as long as it has at least a couple of days runtime, something like a “Solid State Battery” might give them that option, and easy access to swap out, would be the ideal scenario, we could then carry, charged up spare batteries… Cheers Kev :wink:

#15

User replaceable rechargeable batteries would do me. I’d get Sphere tomorrow if replaceable batteries (rechargeable or not) were an option. I would prefer BTE over RIC though.

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#16

I get the desirability of being optimistic and agree that if a company is motivated enough that they can come up with a solution but I think there is more than one factor that contributes to this not happening any time soon. 1) The most optimistic I’ve seen is MAYBE getting solid state batteries into consumer devices by 2026 Samsung's new solid state battery could be powering the Galaxy Watch by 2026 - PhoneArena
2)I think the bigger issue is demand. There isn’t that big of a market for UP BTEs with the latest and greatest technology. A large part of that is there are now better solutions than hearing aids for many people with the kind of losses that would need a UP BTE, namely Cochlear implant for sensorineural losses and surgery for conductive losses. Yes, I know these aren’t solutions for some people but it greatly lowers the numbers of people who would want the product.
I’ll try to cut this short. Yes, solid state batteries will likely eventually work their way into hearing aids but it will likely be in high volume models.

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#17

Yeah @MDB I do agree with most of your sentiments… Whether Phonak decides to go for a Naida Sphere UP, is very much open to conjecture, but if past form is anything to go bye, something may be on the horizon in approximately 12 months or so? It may well not be a Naida Sphere UP, but I am ever the optimist, and in some of the Phonak blurbs, they categorically say, they have always looked out for the Severe/Profound users, for around 50 years! According to my A.uD, around 5% of her client base is in the Severe/Profound threshold, this is gradually increasing as people live longer, she told me, she had noticed a marginal increase over the last few years, as folks become increasingly deaf, and disillusioned with the service at the NHS, and IMO, it is a guaranteed market, we can’t avoid having hearing aids, we need them to function, and it would appear, no other manufacturers, are making UP aids? Here in the UK, the NHS are so strict on the criteria for CI’s, practically very few qualify, and even if you are lucky enough to qualify… You might have to wait a couple of years? At around £28k per ear, it is easy to see why, the NHS local trusts don’t want you to have a CI, as this comes out their local trust budget… In 2022, 22% of people use private healthcare insurance in the UK, 11.7 million folks, it jumped 83% in 1 year during the pandemic, the problem with that, is lack of private hospitals, they do not have the infrastructure, most private healthcare doctors & nurses, work both sectors, and some do their private work within the NHS facilities, to the detriment of the NHS service user, personally I don’t believe, private healthcare should be using, publicly funded facilities, especially when private clients, cue jump NHS facilities… The service is an absolute shambles! Cheers Kev.

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#18

Market demand should not be an indicator nor should it ever be something that determines medical care for patients. I have more than enough viable hearing left that I don’t qualify for CI and I am in desperate need of NAIDA-like Ultra Power aids that fit my loss that actually work that DO NOT have a random rebooting issue that Oticon has. Phonak should always be offering it with every single generation of aids. Especially when I bought into the configuration as a solution for single-sided deafness and severe > profound loss in the other side 7 years ago. That would be the ethical solution.