Yeah Dave, I also switched to NAL NL2 about 20 months back, clarity was much better… But, at first it was slightly on the loud side, but I acclimatised after approximately a month, tis all okay since then… Cheers Kev 
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What about soft speech? Do you understand soft speech better with NAL than with phonak own rationale?
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Yeah @eyesgreendeaf I can… For instance, prior too me swapping over to NAL NL2… For years, I had never heard the kitchen clock ticking, unless I was virtually inches away from it, it’s a very soft tick from a large battery operated clock, but now I can hear it clearly from 10 feet away, with very little listening effort… Now, to be very honest, I had REM done at the same time, so I can’t be 100% sure it’s the NAL NL2 rational, the REM, but most probably it’s a combination of both? Cheers Kev 
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Anyone who experienced DSL rationale vs NAL NL2 ?
I’ve tried a majority of the available rational’s, including DSL which I didn’t like much. I settled on NAL NL2 as it worked the best for me. It had the right balance of softness yet was best for speech. NAL NL1 was loud and harsh, the Phonak’s proprietary rational is where I started from and it was just OK. Definitely worth investigating the options.
I’m not understanding speech just 6/-8feet away. I have Lumity 90RL, but still do not feel the HIS has them fit correctly. I’m so frustrated. I do not know what to do. I’ve worn HAs since 2004 and Never had issues like this.
In a quiet environment, 6 feet away shouldn’t be a problem @Sequoia_Woman… Your loss, doesn’t appear to be difficult to fit, take them back, and ask for a refit, hopefully by another dispenser… Your HIS, is either incompetent or inexperienced in fitting Phonak, either way, you need someone more experienced to achieve a better outcome, someone who does REM, might be a good starting point? Good Luck, Cheers Kev
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Today I visited a new hearing aid practitioner My audiologist had politely suggested I needed to find someone new
I’m really glad that I made the change.
We talked as he worked on my hearing aids. He didn’t do a hearing test; he used the last one done by the other audiologist.
He put the values in, and used Target on his computer.
I asked him what he found.
- the old setup used the wrong domes; it was open domes, and the other audiologist had me use closed domes for a long time.
- the two Paradise P90R’s weren’t set up to communicate. Sorry; don’t know how to describe that.
As a result he said that the directional mikes didn’t work. Features like noise cancelling didn’t work.
Today at the fitness centre I could hear and understand a man talking to an attendant. I was looking at his back; I couldn’t lip read of course. I understood every word. He was about 20 feet away. I could hear my friend behind me talking. He was more than 10 feet away, and behind me. I understood what he said.
Tonight I was in an area running my dog. There were 4 dogs; maybe 6 people. We were in the flight path of a major airport with planes perhaps 2000? feet overhead and they had just take off. I never had trouble hearing what was being said. If I had done that yesterday I wouldn’t have understand anything said.
Hearing Well Matters is the name of the firm. I’m so impressed.
There’s hope. But there’s no excuse for our suppliers setting up our hearing aids badly. Mine were bad for almost 2 years.
DaveL
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My hearing aids are supplied because of hearing loss due to noise at work. This was my first visit. He will take me on as a client. It will take some time for the Ministry of Labour to make the changes. He likely won’t be paid for his valuable time spent. My hat is off, and I salute him. He’s a fine man.
DaveL
Toronto
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@kevels55 I agree with your comment. The audiogram on my profile hasn’t been updated by me. I saw my HIS last week as comparing the audiogram he did in Dec ‘22 to one I had 1 month earlier bt another Audi was WAY different. So he did another hearing test which was on the ballpark of my previous audiograms. He could not explain what happened. He doesn’t have a sound booth, just ear plugs in my ears (I’ve always had tests in sound booth) and then he performed ’REM’. He just has me sit in front of a box. The wire ribbon is in my ears and the loop. These is no words spoken, like talking about carrots, which I have always had done too. I don’t know if these things, differences, make a difference in outcome of test. All I know is I am having terrible hearing with these Lumity, which everyone says they’re great for improved speech. Please note: In inputting my audiogram to my profile, I noticed he did not register my Right Ear hearing for frequencies 750 or 1500. Just sloppy work I’m thinking. How can he do a proper fitting when he doesn’t have all the information. Also, why not record all frequencies. All my other hearing tests do all i.e. 3000 and 6000 . Here is a pic of my audiogram ad of August 2, 2023. Any help will be appreciated. I’m ready to find a new Audi.
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I feel so badly you’re having these problems. I did too.
My regret: I didn’t leave the last audiologist when he gave me excuses when I told him my issues. My hearing aids were fine. It was setup that failed. I was too loyal.
You have better hearing aids than I do! In desperation I went to “rate my doc” and read a whole lot of reviews. My old audiologist has a 5 star rating! I don’t know how that happened. Maybe he had never setup Paradise P90’s before.
We have similar audiograms. I really hope that you can find someone skilled to set up your hearing aids.
(I watch morning tv on a channel based in a city an hour’s drive away. I remembered that theyhad a clinic that advertised on the channel. I went to their website and searched for “hearing”. A staff reporter had interviewed the owner of “Hearing Well Matters”. the reporter’s father used hearing aids. He asked the right questions. All the questions were the same as the remarks I made since I got my Paradise P90’s! They were described as clues that the person was hard of hearing, and needed hearing aids. I called the owner and talked to him
Yesterday he fixed my setup using my audiogram and did it in an hour. I can hear! I’m very grateful!)
Yesterday I was in the gymn at the hospital where I’m enrolled in a “heart recovery program”. Three of us started talking about being hard of hearing. I had been ecstatic that I could hear in that noisy environment! I had talked to a friend enrolled there who knew I was hard of hearing. One of the participants gave the name of an audiologist to us. Personal recommendations mean so much!
My story isn’t important, but I hope that you can profit knowing my mistakes.
DaveL
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@DaveL thank you so much. I appreciate you words and I’m going to be looking for a new audiologist. I hope to find one that can adjust my HAs to work for me. This guy is just sloppy, I forgot to mention that he let me leave the office and he had not saved my program in his computer, so when I got to my car I tried to pair my HAs and I could not shut them off. Went back in and he realized his mistake. What if I had left and drove the hour + home? 
. He is just sloppy. I should mention that he is a TruHearing provider, so he’s getting paid for each of my ‘free’ appointments. 
. It is time to find another Audi. Thank you again for your support. I’ll get there!
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Great respect for you.
You’ll get there!
DaveL
edit: when I bought my first hearing aid I found the audiologist/practitioner in the yellow pages!
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Delighted for you @DaveL, you now appear to be on the correct road to a proper fitting @Sequoia_Woman if you follow Dave’s lead, you will hopefully arrive at a similar outcome… All the very best to you both, cheers Kev
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I’m in the workman’s comp group. Our guvmint makes things hard for practitioners and audiologists. Guvmint is trying to reduce costs. Equipment. Setup. Maintenance.
The gentleman who I saw yesterday has to submit and have Labour assign me as a customer. He will get my records; I haven’t signed anything to let him do that. Then he can invoice. He did quick fit as the audiologist-who-quit did.
It wasn’t REM.
My next appointment is in 6 months. (guvmint controls the number of appointments and sets the costs)
They work So Much Better. I’m grateful for that.
DaveL
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Hi Dave.
I don’t suppose you know what he did in target to fix that? I am still having huge problems with my p90s and it sounds similar to you.
I use custom shells and know the software is setup correctly for them as I program them myself. But I still have issues.
Great to hear you have made giant leap forward.
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Dave I always thought it was something small in the programming.
I’ve had 3 sets of Phonaks. 3 audiologists.
First–extraordinary results. No issues at all She sold her business
Second–rant starting. I was there 8 years and I’m still extremely disappointed. They sold their business
Third–he’s been in business a long time. He just doesn’t know how to program Paradise P90’s and set them up.
My new practitioner–asked him to tell me what he was doing.
- he used my old audiogram; most recent one and was on my P90’s
- he checked pressure in my ear
- he had a cameo/no wax buildup.
Put them on his computer using Target.
- said domes were wrong; set as open He changed that
- said left HA wasn’t set up to talk with my right HA
He printed off reports for me. First time ever!
I couldn’t see his computer screen.
He said that not communicating was a huge issue. Most of the Phonak programs on the P90 wouldn’t work. Noise cancelling; some others.
He did a quick fit. Same as the old audi who quit. No REM. Same.
The HA’s work.
Do you talk on the programming forum? I don’t
I have an iMac. I’m not good with it. the Target software needs a PC. I don’t have skill to make it run on the iMac. And it’s a 2010 iMac.
If I learn anything more I’ll let you know. I think it’s something simple in your case too. The hearing aids are spectacular now. And that’s before real setup with REM and a good hearing test.
DaveL
Toronto
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where do you go after asking ? I didn’t see your reply. after a friend gave feedback.
your problem is the same as mine. this is the difference that I tuned the tool myself, without the help of audiology. and I think it’s been reset, matching and everything, over 30x . and it still makes me not hear well ( only helped 20% when using the tool )
for engine / refrigerator sounds that are too loud , you should lower the frequency to 125 and 250
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