Hearing Aids for Music

Hearing Aids
#1

This topic tends to get discussed with some frequency here. I have a lot invested in a home sound system, and my interest is getting the best I can out of my hearing aids when listening to music at realistic (loud) levels. As most know, there are issues.

In my on line research I have stumbled onto a site called Hearing Aids for Music which is very interesting. It is basically a research project on how those with hearing loss can best still appreciate music. It is quite up to date and they have just published their main report in 2019. It does not focus on hearing aid brands or models, but on generic hearing aid features and how hearing aids can be best set up and used for music. They have a Resources section which makes a number of reports available for viewing and downloading. I suspect the document of most interest to the forum participants here would be this one:

Music Counselling and Fitting - A Guide for Audiologists

This document goes into some detail on how to set up a hearing aid for best musical performance. One thing I found interesting in the main report was they reported very few people have a music program, and of those that do, very few use it.

Do you have a music program? Do you use it? Does it help you appreciate music? Do you agree with the recommendations made in the document above on how to best set up a music program?

#2

This is a great topic starter.
I have a music program. I rarely seem to use it. I mostly really only listen to music on my own. So I have set whatever equalizer to sorta kinda match and work with my audiogram. It’s not perfect. It never will be of course.
It’s particularly frustrating to listen to music I’m well familiar with. My memory tells me something should be there but my ears don’t hear it. Even equalized. So it’s a bit of a deterrent to actually want to enjoy listening when enjoyment is being curtailed by my losses. Listening to stuff I’m not totally familiar with is fine as I don’t know what I might be missing. But don’t we all get enjoyment listening to favorites? Sigh.

#3

There is one interesting blog on that site I gave a link to. This person describes what music sounds like now that he has hearing loss. It sounds terrible. He must have a very significant loss. I do not suffer from anything like he describes.

#4

And nor do I. I just know I’m missing things. And so the enjoyment goes out the window and so I’m less motivated to want to listen to music. Which I love…and miss.

#5

I would have thought that with your loss you should get pretty good recovery with hearing aids. DSL v5 looks like it might work well for you. It requires too much gain in the highs for my ears, but you might get away with it, if you have not tried it already… It seems to use minimal compression with your loss, which is supposed to be good for music purposes.

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#6

Thanks. Maybe things got turned around with my self-programming. When you talked about three levels of REM a while ago I made an appointment with the store which is a week or so away now. First we’ll see what they say about my diy’ing. Then maybe they can kinda start over and re-do everything and add the three levels of REM. I know they did some REM initially but I want them to be sure of the 3 as I struggle with soft voices.
Then add the music and telecoil programs and set up the switches the way I have it.

#7

Thank you for the links, I will read it all.

I said in another post that I have tried everything and nothing works. That may have been a bit of exaggeration. Not the "nothing works " part but I may not have tried totally everything. I am willing to keep trying. I cannot listen to music without support, good headphones and equalization.

I also use Bose Hearphones. Not perfect but better than my aids and much better than nothing.

Edit: I am obsessive about fidelity in music. I compensate when it comes to speech.

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#8

Widex Evoke 440 make music beautiful. The universal programme automatically moves into music programme, I have custom IP model, my son has F2s. Widex have always delivered on music, just make sure you get fitted through some one experienced in the product.

#9

I am what most call an audiophile. I have ReSound Trax42 from Costco and a very good dispenser. About four years ago, I asked for the music program to be modified removing as much digital processing as possible. So, pretty much following the recommendations cited. Has worked very well for me and I continue to enjoy the hobby immensely.

(If you are not into audio, you might tune out here…)
I’ve also found that using high sensitivity, single driver speakers (with bass reinforcement) and low power single ended amp (tubes) has been a help in reducing irritation/fatigue. In my experience, has made for a much more natural sound than crossover designs and higher power solid state.

#10

I never got into the tube amp thing. My amplifiers are by David Hafler and are 1980 vintage. They were unique at the time for having MOSFET power transistors. They were claimed to have magic benefits that made them sound closer to tubes. What I have learned since hearing aids is that my amplifier has way more power now!

My speakers are basically two way B&W with a passive radiator. Crossover is at 4500 Hz, and the tweeter is set out on top of the box and back from the front to maintain phase coherence. I was a believer back in that day that phase coherence was a critical factor in the ability of a speaker to establish precise left to right sonic imaging. I was a straight wire with gain believer when it came to amplification, and had my preamp set to bypass the tone controls. Again for the same reason to preserve phase coherence and imaging.

Hearing aids have now blown that all out of the water, as I think with all the processing that is done in aids, the sound has as much phase coherence as a bowel of spaghetti. I checked my music program settings against the recommendations in that article and by default it pretty much is set up as they describe. The feedback suppression is still on, but set to Slow. I think I will ask to have it turned off to see if that helps.

#11

Interesting reading. I had a buddy that did the tube thing with his stereo music. He would go on and on about how fine it was. I couldn’t hear what he was talking about, wonder why?

I can say hearing aids have enabled me to hear music again. It has to be when I am alone otherwise the music just competes with anyone speaking and I can not understand a word they say. It has become work to understand speech.

#12

Wonder why? :slight_smile:
I’ve said it before on this site…as we get older and achieve more successes in life, we can spend more money on these sorts of things. On the same track is the usual age-related hearing loss. So we spend more money trying to attain audio nirvana all the while our ears are betraying us.

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#13

Yes, phase coherence is the benefit of single driver speakers. Single ended amps (SS or tube) help in that regard by not splitting and re-integrating the signal as with push-pull desgins. Sense of realism and imaging are wonderful. If I suffer loss of frequency resolution, the former helps to compensate in enjoyment.

I’ve been through audiohell but am now in audioheaven. :slight_smile: I have been very satisfied with my setup for a year now with no desire to change anything major. When I listen, there is no more “something isn’t quite there yet” any longer. Just smiles. It did take a long time, lots of searching, buying and selling used equipment on audiogon and audiocircle. I have found that there really can be an end point if one is looking for music enjoyment and not just wanting to experiment endlessly.

#14

Back in the heyday of vinyl audiophiles like myself used to spend very big bucks trying to get everything they could out of a vinyl recording. Today a CD player is worth about $10! Those in search of the perfect phono cartridge would go to a moving coil design. The early versions were very very expensive and often hand made. And, they had a rather unique characteristic which was a rising high end response going out to 20 kHz and more. It was not linear at all. My theory was that they gained popularity with the folk that had lots of money to spend, were probably older, and had high frequency hearing loss. It did more than play back, it restored their hearing! I have a silver moving coil cartridge but it was designed to have a flat response. Today I need that rising response big time! However, I think the guy in Japan that was making them has probably died or is at least retired. The last I heard he was repairing cartridges but not making new ones.

#15

Probably as good a topic to post a thought…

Being a musician in a band, I use IEMs (In Ear Monitors) for the past few years. These things are great! They cut the outside noise out (thus eliminating stage noise, foldback speakers and loud drums) while offering very good low, mid highs. These things are available in a variety of setups (Drummers and bass players have dual low/bass end etc). I use mine also for listening to music from my phone, iPod, etc. The Music Industry's Most Trusted Custom In-Ear Monitoring Company

My thought was this…the IEMs are hard-wired connected to a 3.5mm jack. This is removable from the IEM side and has a 2-pin input. So do the RICs from the HA. I was wondering if I should connect the IEM to the HA and see/hear of any improvement in sound quality from a musicians view point? My only issues would be that the IEM set me back $2,100 and the HAs ~$5,000. Not something to experiment with.

The thought was that RICs are single receivers when the IEM will have anything from 3 to 16 drivers! Surely worth trying!

#16

I don’t get the resurgence of vinyl. It always just sounded so dull and muddy and then such a hassle to maintain both the record and the stylus. And forget about portability. Then 8-tracks came along. Hate the track switch. Then cassettes. Better portability but then the hiss. Then CD’s. Well. Crisp, clean, bright, awake sound. Love it. Audio nirvana. Just gotta watch those remasters. Particularly in the 90’s or so. :astonished:
Then I got older…

#17

I always liked the 8 track. Until the tape deck ate the tape.
You could drive down the road and see them laying along the road from people getting mad a throwing them out.

I pretty much quit listening to music about 25 years ago due to hearing loss and tinnitus. Then 10 years or so ago the digital aids came out and learned I could hear better again. Enjoy music now and then but it conflicts with speech understanding so I try to stay away from it around people.

#18

I never really found the vinyl to be dull or muddy, but then I have a phono setup that would cost in the $1600 range to buy today, compared to my single CD player which is about $400. I do not find it to be superior to a CD though like some claim. It is almost impossible to keep vinyl perfectly clean and free from clicks and pops. They are much more noticeable when you crank the volume, as well as the floor noise. I guess some find the CD sound to be so clean it sounds clinical.

#19

I was satisfied with vinyl sound quality. I had a 60’s Thorens. Sold it and most of my albums a couple of years ago. With streaming from my library on drives and now full resolution services like Qobuz and Tidal, I just didn’t use it.

CD’s did add clean sound and improved bass response. But the digital sound/harshness, remained until recent years when digital to analog converters finally advanced enough to resolve digital tracks more smoothly. The ones that really make a noticeable difference are quite expensive, but that will trickle down to the reasonably priced DACs before long.

#20

Well…truth be told…I’ve probably always had a level of hearing issues. As a teen I would always want more treble because I wanted to hear the cymbals better. Couldn’t get that out of a record. The CD made all that go away. Who wants a noise floor anyway :slight_smile: And I certainly don’t miss the ticks and pops.
I still have my later 70’s consumer-level Kenwood player.
@Peter_S: I’d be interested to know the names behind those DAC’s.