I am curious. From a purely technical point of view, all hearing aids in a series seem to be the same.
The capabilities just depend on the firmware used. Has anyone ever tried to flash a different firmware onto a device?
The manufacturer’s software offers this option for updating. All you would have to do is add the other file to the process.
I wondered the same.
I.e. flashing the Intent 1 firmware into the 9050.
I doubt it would work. I am an electronics engineer is a different industry, but experience tells me that the firmware is locked to particular hardware. I’m sure the HA companies have codes in the firmware that check for the proper ID code in the device. In other words, even though the hardware may be the same, during manufacture a specific product code is burned into the device, and the firmware will look for the correct product code before installing.
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@pmc1978
Haha that would be a nice try-out. But as @viffer says normally it would not work. Say never never.
The firmware makes a verification before being installed. Therefore it will detect bit- rows in the old installed firmware that do not match if checked. That’s also why most of the time you cannot reverse to an older version.
Question is what does this specific code check if it installs itself. And even then it could be that you’ll brick the HA without expecting it.
It would be wise to first disassemble the written code and make comparances to the new one to know what and which functions are used.
In former years the firmware code was burn’t into a read only memory and nowedays it’s working more like rewritable memory/ software.
But I like very much the experiment as I started born as a curious baby and this behaviour of damaging everything around me because of curiosity never stopped.
Don’t know if I would try this out on the top of the range HA’s and unfortunately don’t have comparable aids from ‘different’ vendors.
Would be a nice suggestion for a different topic on the forum here as my story is off topic at the moment. Sorry for that…
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An excellent way to brick your aids. At least with Oticon the difference from generation to generation is the DAC, or processor. And there is even a good possibility that the software is designed to prevent that type of mistakes.
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@cvkemp
This example will fail for a 100%. It will start already failing in the offering process as an update. As you also mention by differences in hardware. So only exact hardware identical types must be checked. You have to try something like Phonak Paradise P90 and the comparative ones from what was it Costco 10 or the Amplifon Ampli- energy B5 P R SLV.
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When I trialed the Starkey Genesis the audiologist told me that everything was different.
The programs, the way it was programmed.
Different software.
I know the processor is different.
When they put a different version of Android on a phone the bootloader has to be unlocked.
I’m not a computer wiz. I just know what I read.
Even then it doesn’t work on every phone.
I’m pretty sure hearing aids are in their own world when it comes to programming.
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I disagree most updates or so called upgrades are nothing but eye candy. They are there to make you believe that they changed their devices so you will scrap what you have and buy their "new’ stuff. I worked designed and maintained a lot of it i saw the stunts that companies do to make people think they are getting something new. And all they are buying is a product that maybe a few things have be repaired that should have been repaired for you for no cost.
How do you think these companies are worth so much and really have so little effort put into it.
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A skilled and determined person could probably make some progress but it might be limited to certain brands and models. The possible exploits in each would be different. It would also be hard to verify functionality of all features even if one could upgrade as an example a Real 3 to a Real 1.
It’s also possible that there are multiple layers of firmware. What makes the hardware Real 3 versus Real 1 might be written to write only memory. The firmware that gets updated might be more of an embedded OS which works with the entire family of hardware. Upgrading the unit in that construct might not be possible.
Getting various versions of firmware and examining those might be the easiest initial step.
Here is an example of someone who actually tried flashing a different firmware.
They were very unhappy after doing this.
I would be interested in flashing a higher tech level onto identical HA’s of a lower tech level. We already assume that the hardware is identical between different tech levels but features are activated selectively.
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I trust the wonderful reviews I read from members here.
In the Phonak line they’ve had
Marvel (?)
Paradise
Lumity
Now some Sphere thing
I had Phonak B70s, and now have Paradise HA’s. Then Lumity came along. We read so many claims from the marketing world saying how good the Lumity series was. Yet I couldn’t grab the improvements from the LUmity and make them work in my Paradse P90’s. I would be more brand loyal if mine could be upgraded and improved.
Now our Members are saying and showing how much better the Sphere thing is. I trust them; not the manufacturer. Next time I get new hearing aids I’ll think twice. My hearing aids have to work better in the environment I frequent.
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Oh, and which HA mfr is allowing these upgrades? So we can all jump over there, you know. Let us in on the secret. Snarkiness aside, they all play this game. And they all play the game of jacking around the prices depending on the volume of the seller and how much influence that seller has over them. Pick the best aids for your loss at the time you need to get new ones. Other than what works best for you that you can afford, I think there is generally only brand loyalty because what we’ve had has worked best consistently. Or the relationship with our HCPs.
WH
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My take is that this is “theoretically” possible. By “this” I mean upgrading from a less advanced version of the same model. For example from a Phonak Audeo P70 to a P90. Phonak does have trial versions that essentially allow that. However, one would likely need access to both equipment and knowledge that is not readily available. If it were, I suspect somebody would be bragging about what they’d done or selling upgraded versions at a profit.
Theoretically? Sure. But the example is a situation where all the feature levels run the same firmware. Those differences that matter are burned in at the factory. There are some brands which allow an upgrade. But I suspect the upgrade is controlled very carefully. When I worked in an organization that had a web server product with many performance levels and options, the same code was shipped regardless, the differences were in a serial number connected config file which was cryptographically signed to detect tinkering. If the check at startup didn’t come clean, the code wouldn’t run. If an upgrade was purchased later, that was similarly locked and added in the same folder with the other config files. We had diagnostic codes to use in the lab to enable as many or few features as we needed to replicate a customer’s situation. All that to say, it is unlikely to be easy.
WH
I think we’re basically agreeing. I do remember sometime back some graphic cards being able to be flashed to a higher version.
You are correct. But for hardware, the product code is generally burned into a read only memory, or locked flash site, and cannot be changed. All the firmware update software has to do is read the product code and it will only flash the firmware for that product code. Even a skilled programmer probably can’t get around that, since it is burned into the device. Likely the only way to hack it would be to hack the programming code to skip the product code check. But even then, if you had the wrong firmware for the hardware (not necessarily the device name, since different devices can have the EXACT same hardware), you could brick the device.
What a response. Thank you! My idea would have been to only change within the same series. So buy the Phonak P30s and switch to the P90. So same series but different technology level. Mostly limited by software I think.
The burn-in at the factory of the will prevent anyone moving up. The firmware is the same across all the phonak levels. There isn’t a “L30” firmware you can replace with an “L90” firmware. The only exception I’ve ever heard of is the Unitron hearing aids. They are probably the same or very similar hardware as the Phonak, but the HCP can upgrade tech levels with a mouse click. It costs money. I don’t have details on how Sonova tracks it, but, you can get a unitron aid upgraded if you feel that you made a mistake in buying a lower featured HA vs a higher featured one.
WH
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Phonak demo HA’s can be “flashed” to any desired tech level in the Target software. We just need a hack to do this with the non-demo models.
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