GN launching a Jabra branded M&RIE product at Costco

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#174

Went to Costco today for my 1 month checkin. Told them I wanted to try the M&RIE and they did it :slight_smile:

They did a quick test and with the M&RIE I gained 10db on a couple of frequencies, and I could tell a difference immediately. Everything sounds more natural, including voices. After 3 hours I am very happy with them. No feedback at all with hand completely covering ears. I don’t know how to describe all the differences, but everythings just sounds more real and not like it’s coming through a radio. As always will take a few weeks to get a real life sense of them, but as of right now I am thrilled with them. I like the Jabra before, but now I’m pretty much sold on them.

On the subject of streaming music, yes they sound very treble heavy and zero bass. Does not bother me as I do not stream music, and audio books sound fine for me.

Update: Concerning bass. Did the triple tap on my iPhone 6S and brought up the quick HA settings. Added bass, took down treble. It sounds much better streaming now, can actually hear bass playing and a fuller sound. Mind you these will never compete with a cover the ear headphone or even an Air Pod, but it does at least have some bass. Good enough if you’re in the waiting room getting tires put on your car but there are much better options at home.

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#175

An interesting observation regarding streaming, and using the phone’s ability to use equalizer settings to adjust output:

With my Jabra’s connected via Bluetooth, using the (Android) Galaxy S21 Ultra, when I go to ‘Sounds and vibration’…‘Sound quality and effects’… the options for ‘Equalizer’ and ‘Adapt sound’ are greyed out and unavailable. If I connect my Sony headphones using Bluetooth, they are available to configure.

I checked my wife’s Galaxy S8, to which she has her KS9’s attached, and both ‘Equalizer’ and ‘Adapt sound’ are both available for use.

So it’s as if at least my phone doesn’t recognize the Jabra’s as connected ‘Headphones’ which is why those options are greyed out. @Fig’s idea of adjusting the bass here, which is a good one, although it obviously wouldn’t have a huge impact, is not an option on my phone.

I’d be interested to hear from other Jabra users who have Android phones. Are these Sound quality options available on your phones? And what is your assessment in terms of bass adequacy when listening to music?

#176

@DLCPhoto, i have the S9 and just got my Jabra’s on Wednesday. I followed your directions and got the same thing. When attempting to adjust, i got “The current sound effect is not supported by your audio path.” I made adjustments through to Jabra App to increase the bass. Unfortunately, the app kept locking up as I tried to switch between programs. Maybe it’s the difference between the MiOS (Jabra) and and K9s Bluetooth?

#177

I also have the KS9s and Jabras. As I understand things (perhaps incorrectly), the KS9s use Bluetooth 4.2 (“Bluetooth Classic”) and show up as a standard Bluetooth headset. The advantage is that they’ll work as a headset with any device using bluetooth (e.g., my Macbook). The disadvantage is battery drain, compared to Bluetooth LE. Android ASHA is a non-standard mechanism for streaming audio to hearing aids. Its advantage is that it uses Bluetooth Low Energy and consumes less battery. A disadvantage is that it works only on certain versions of Android, and Android audio application developers have to choose to support it (or not). My 2021 Macbook Air doesn’t recognize the Jabras as bluetooth devices. Also, ASHA uses its own audio codec. I wonder if one of the reasons the Jabras sound “thinner” to my ears, compared to the KS9s, is that the codec itself might be optimized for speech, not music. That should be remedied when the Bluetooth LE Audio standard is final, assuming ReSound updates the Jabras.

Anyway, I tried a few experiments this morning, using my Pixel 4a. I can pair the KS9s and the Jabras to my phone, simultaneously. If I play a music file using Google File manager, Youtube Music (another Google app), or the Pi Music Player, the app allows me to choose to output the sound to either the KS9s or the Jabras, so these apps see both devices as audio destinations. However, Spotify doesn’t seem to “see” the Jabras. But, if I’ve been playing a music file in Pi with the output directed to the Jabras, and then activate Spotify and play a file, Spotify streams to the Jabras but shows the KS9s as the output device. Ugh.

The Pi music player has a built in equalizer that works with the Jabras, but I can’t get the sound to be as “full” as it sounds with the KS9s.

The Costco fitter made some changes to increase bass for streaming with the Jabras, but they don’t seem to have had much effect. I have the ReSound Smart Fit software for the Jabras, and I plan to tinker a bit with the gain settings before my next Costco visit in two weeks.

#178

I am iOS and therefore do not have experience with the various android versions/phones. But on the iPhone/iPad triple tap brings up a quick access menu to adjust the HA’s (volume, program, etc). Also within the Jabra app the bass/midrange/treble setting do help the bass, and the quality of sound. However there is no way a “speaker” the size of a pinhead is going to sound really good. To me it’s like the speakers on the phone. They work, but even a cheap audio system will be better.

But, the good news is the Jabra has excellent feedback protection so completely covering the ear HiFi headphones work, and airpods as well. But IMHO no matter what you do the Jabra’s will never give good quality audio, streaming music.

#179

Very interesting posts from @MisTrae, @garyh and @Fig - thank you.

I’ve found the Jabra App to crash somewhat frequently on my S21 as I’ve made adjustments. Not terrible, but a bit annoying.

This is exactly my understanding as well. In fact, because my Note 8 was not ASHA compliant in this context, I actually upgraded to the S21 Galaxy Ultra the week before I got the Jabras, since they are on the ‘official’ list for Jabra. I have been thinking about upgrading anyway, since the Note 8 will no longer get security updates and such, but this is definitely what forced the issue for me.

I’m also guessing that because this is an LE-variant of Bluetooth, the distance for effective connection is shorter as well, explaining why I can’t even keep my phone in the pocket of my shorts and keep the connection to both the Left and Right aids. Do other Jabra owners experience this as well?

I would be curious to poke around in this, just to see what options are provided. If you wouldn’t mind, please PM me the info about where you got this. I did some of this with Compass GPS on my Widex 330’s, although it didn’t seem that I could do more good than harm, given my limited experience!

I absolutely agree. Because of the physics involved, I wasn’t expecting even “good” bass with these. But I was surprised that the bass actually seemed to be completely absent! I have used them with my Sony over-the-ear’s, and the sound is excellent, and feedback is non-existent. I’m guessing that the M&RIE concept is helping vs my Widex, but I haven’t tried to do back-to-back comparisons yet.

I continue to be bugged by the recurrent loss of correct sync between Left and Right while streaming - with the result that imaging is not central as it should be, but is heard separately in both ears. I know one poster confirmed experiencing this as well, but I am curious if others have as well. Just trying to figure out if this is the nature of the beast, or if I happen to have an underperforming pair.

ReSound ONE Bluetooth / MFi signal cuts out if I move away from phone
#180

Bluetooth Classic is usually v1.0 -> 3.0, typically 2.x. Bluetooth 4.x is usually referred to as Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) but also contain Bluetooth Classic for reasons of backward compatibility, so will a phone having BT 5.2, I think. I think the Marvels and the Paradise and related Phonak HA’s use both BT Classic (for audio transmission) and BLE for HA/smartphone communication because it saves battery, e.g., when you change HA settings using the smartphone app - don’t need BT Classic for that.

#181

Interesting. It makes me wonder if perhaps the Jabra require an ASHA-compatible phone to be able to connect using the Enhance Pro App, and be able to change settings, etc., and if there is backward compatibility in the Jabra itself, perhaps a ‘regular’ Bluetooth connection can be made with a non-ASHA phone (like my prior Note 8). Probably not, but I’m going to give it a try.

#182

I think your Note 8 should be able to make adjustments via the app (based on this https://www.resound.com/en-us/help/compatibility#androiddevice) butI I’m quite confident you won’t do any streaming unless you have an auxillary device.

#183

Yep, I can vouch for that. I have a Galaxy Note 8, my Quattros are ASHA-capable, and I think the Galaxy Note 8 was hardware-capable of supporting whatever BT and Android versions were required for ASHA but Samsung at the time was not seeing fit to do the work to upgrade “old” phones to the latest Android OS version - I think my Note 8 was only about 2 years old when ASHA started becoming available in Android - unlike my iPhone 6S, which is 6 years old going on 7 and will receive the latest iOS version (15) this fall. Hopefully, Google promising 5 years of Android updates for Pixel’s will really give Samsung a hotfoot on this score to do better. Samsung makes great hardware - if they would only update it longer!

#184

Yup - just tried this out. I turned off Jabra and S21. Turned on Note 8, then Jabra’s, and the Jabra did appear as devices to pair with - selected ok, and thought this might lead somewhere. But they don’t actually ‘connect’, nor can I get any sound to the aids.

This was without the Jabra Enhance Pro App installed. I did that next, and you were correct that I could make adjustments within the App, and even hear the “ding” through the aids. But no streaming, no BT connection established. Oh well…

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#185

Samsung Galaxy a51 model is compatible and has direct connectivity with Jabra / Resound One/ Quattro hearing aids

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#186

Setting aside the Bluetooth and Streaming shortcomings, I am interested in what others are experiencing in terms of the basic function of these hearing aids. Here is what I’m hearing thus far:

  1. Overall, they’re working reasonably well, with decent speech comprehension, especially considering I’m only 1 week in, with just the initial settings done by the Fitter.
  2. It seems that the in-ear microphone helps with localization when outside, and also when listening with over the ear headphones.
  3. I do like the App, although I take issue with some aspects of how it works when you change from one program to another (the EQ carries over, rather than going back to the default for that program).
  4. They do well in terms of high-frequency feedback, which is virtually absent, but I do often hear what seems to be brief, mid to high frequency artifacts, which are almost like a ‘resonance’ or ‘buzz’.
  5. While I understand the concept and potential value of hearing aids adjusting automatically to changing ambient sound conditions, I find this is more distracting than it is helpful. Perhaps this behavior can be changed in a subsequent fitting session.
  6. Regarding this automatic adjustment, is it possible for each side to adjust independently of the other side? For example, I’ll be watching a show, and the left side will change its performance and sound. You know how you can touch the hearing aids, and hear that ‘crackling’ noise - it’ll be present on one side, and not the other, presumably because of it having a different program, or different balance between the mics on the device vs in the ear.

So it’s definitely a mixed experience so far, and I’m curious if others are noticing any of the same issues that I am.

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#187

I’m still curious to hear what others are experiencing with these, relative to my post above.

#188

@Ureout has been wearing the ReSound Ones for some time and when last he wrote, had no complaints. Guess he hasn’t yet gotten the M&RIE receivers to try as he hasn’t updated the thread containing his OP, with his last post back around May 11th. Theoretically, if the Jabras are almost a carbon copy of the Ones, most folks with the Jabras should have his experience.

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#189

I ordered custom molds which should be in on August 16. When I was in getting the impressions done I asked to try the M&RIE receivers again. We swapped in the receivers with longer wires (went from 2 to 3) and medium closed domes (down from large closed domes). While the calibration indicated a potential for feedback, I’ve not experienced it any more than I did with the MP receivers, 2 wires, and large closed domes. With the medium domes the M&RIE receivers fit deeper in my canals, and don’t migrate out, even without using the sports lock.

The sound with the M&RIE receivers is overall better. There seems to be more detail in what I’m hearing. And surprisingly, streaming with the TV Streamer 2 is even better than with the regular MP receivers.

In the All Around program I started out with All Access Directionality, which worked well. At a followup, we switched to M&RIE in the All Around program. I subsequently read the ReSound white paper that indicated that All Access Directionality is the preferred default to allow the brain to hear more sounds, (sounds like the Oticon More, huh), and intend to go back to that when I get the molds on the 16th. M&RIE is the default directionality in the Outdoor program, as the M&RIE receiver has been demonstrated to reduce wind noise over the regular receivers.

If I experience any issues with the molds, I’ll be perfectly happy to continue using medium closed domes. I will ultimately settle on 4 programs - All Around, Ultra Focus, Restaurant, and Music. With the 4 programs I’ll leave the default directionality setting- All Access Directionality in All Around, Ultra Focus in Ultra Focus, Autoscope in Restaurant, and Omni in Music.

I’m really glad I asked to try the M&RIE receivers after the initial feedback issues, and was particularly surprised at the improvement in TV streaming audio. It’s like going from HD to 4K is with TV pictures.

After reading quite a bit about the ReSound One/Jabra aids and the Oticon More and comparing spec sheets, I’m much more inclined to stay with the Jabra aids, enjoy hearing sounds all around me, and pocket quite a bit of savings versus the More from an Oticon-authorized audiologist.

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#190

I’ve noticed a couple of other things with the Jabra aids recently. First, my tinnitus seems to be much reduced and less annoying, even after removing the aids. I discovered years ago that when I wear hearing aids my tinnitus seems less noticeable. It was somewhat of a revelation the last couple of days to realize that without the aids my tinnitus seems much less pronounced.

The other thing I noticed is that while listening to music in the car it sounds so much better, just in the All Around program, than I remember with other aids.

I listen to SiriusXM in the car, streaming it from the iPhone app to the car’s infotainment system. I can hear so much more detail with the Jabras. Percussion instruments, cymbals, tambourines, various wind instruments, piano. And I can hear the subtle details of each of the instruments. Really enjoying rediscovering music that I’ve listened to for years. Who knew that there were birds chirping in the background while Minnie Riperton sings “Loving You?”

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#191

Just to get the exact listening situation, is this with the M&RIE mics operating in a “low-sound level” environment? Or being in the car with wind and road noise, have the M&RIE mics kicked out in favor of the behind-the-ear mics, which get more precedence in noisy listening environments? I know ReSound mentions the transition is done according to the noise level around the listener. Does the app or the sensation of listening give you any distinct clues as to where amongst the HA mics the sound is coming from at any given moment, e.g., can you sense the switch in how things sound coming into your ears?

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#192

It’s in my All Around program which has directionality currently set as M&RIE. I don’t sense any changes, other than great music, whether the car is stopped or moving. I drive an EV so there’s not much noise even at speed. I did also notice that at all but the highest music levels I can still hear the turn signal.

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#193

Today I returned my trial Jabra Enhance aids to Costco and ordered KS10s (after a brief demo revealed nothing surprising).

I had spent a month comparing the Jabras to my “old” KS9s outdoors (bike riding), in restaurants, in a theater, and, over the past several days, in a large fairly reverberant room (high ceilings, hard surfaces, large windows) with 15 people milling about, conversing, kids playing (family reunion), including 7 children, ages 1 to 12 - the 1 year old is a joyous shrieker.

I use power domes at present. I had downloaded the ReSound and Phonak fitting software so I could compare the gains set by the fitter between the two aids. I had taken the Jabras back once to Costco for a fitting adjustment, where, among other things, he significantly boosted the low frequency gain for streaming. After that, I used fitting software to make some temporary adjustments for both the KS9s and Jabras so I could get a sense of what some of the features were doing, for my ears.

On balance, I think I could achieve comparable performance (sound quality and speech intelligibility) with either brand, with enough time spent fitting (even though, as I received them from Costo, they sounded pretty far apart). I had high hopes for the M&RIE receiver, but I really couldn’t tell a difference. I guess I have an “average” pinna, so that the compensation programmed into the behind the ear microphone versions works pretty well. The Jabras do seem to have better windblock. Both the Jabras and the KS9s had occasional (relatively rare) issues with maintaining the Bluetooth connection, depending on the device and the situation.

The big difference for me was my perception of Bluetooth audio quality, particularly streaming music, and the fact that the KS9s and KS10s will connect to my Macbook. It bugged me that I could not understand why music streamed from my Pixel 4a to the Jabras was pretty much unaffected by settings of the 5 band equalizer in the Pi Android music player, but it was significantly affected if I wore my wired Bose Quiet Comfort 15 over the ear headphones on top of the Jabra aids. I thought I ought to be able to get the Jabras to sound similarly to the KS9s, because I enjoy the sound from the KS9s. So digging into the ASHA Android spec https://source.android.com/devices/bluetooth/asha#audio-packet-format-and-timing, I discovered that ASHA is apparently using a G.722 codec G.722 - Wikipedia, which samples the audio signal at 16Khz, and uses up to a 64 kbs data transmission rate over BLE. Digging more into codecs, G.722 is a relatively old codec that was created to allow transfer of “commentator quality” voice on 64kbs channels. It was not intended for music reproduction (see Comparison of audio coding formats - Wikipedia)

Playing with the Pi equalizer, it seemed that the relative “fullness” of music streamed from the KS9 was due to energy in the 120Hz to 460Hz band. My guess is that the G.722 codec in ASHA is filtering out most of the energy there before sampling, which would explain why neither the fitter’s gain changes nor the Pi equalizer had a noticeable impact on making the music from the Jabra more similar to that from the KS9 (which I enjoy).

I did a brief experiment with a bluetooth connection between the Jabras and my iPad, using MFi, and I had the same experience of streamed music sounding “thin” to my ears, compared to the KS9s, but I didn’t go any further to try to see how MFi is implemented

SO (and sorry for going on and on, but perhaps someone will benefit, or respond to improve my understanding of these things), the Bluetooth LE Audio LC3 codec, when it’s finalized and deployed, should be superior (for music) to any of the codecs used by Bluetooth Classic What is LE Audio and LC3, the latest in Bluetooth audio? - SoundGuys. The Jabras seem more future safe in that regard. So maybe I should stay with them and wait for the firmware update. But, my current phone and 2021 Macbook only support Bluetooth 5.0, so I won’t be getting high fidelity Bluetooth LE Audio streamed to them. I’d need a new phone and a new laptop. Android 12 has APIs to support Bluetooth LE Audio profiles, but the phone or laptop would need hardware support for BLE Audio as well. I’ve read that the Samsung S21 that uses Qualcomm’s high-end Snapdragon 888 will support Bluetooth LE Audio, but lower range Snapdragon versions do not. Have no idea what Apple or Google may do in the next product cellphone product cycle. Maybe there will be Bluetooth LE Audio dongles?

Anyway, given my priorities, I decided to just eat the battery drain cost and stick with Phonak for the time being. My KS9s have always had a problem with perspiration entering the 312 battery compartment (I had one pair replaced under warranty so far), so I’ll go ahead and try the KS10s.

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