Generic Questions for Self Programming (ReSound Linx2 and LinxQuattro)

Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY]
#1

Hi all,

I’m learning to self-program and have a few questions which I believe are generic.

Background: I have had progressive, bilateral sensorineural hearing loss which began in roughly 2003, when I was 21. Since then, basically, I have always used just a single program on my hearing aids to get me through pretty much every situation. Between my loss progressing to a worse stage, and my wide variety of listening environments (I’m a merchant mariner and a classical musician), I am finally opening up to both: a.) utilizing multiple programs for different scenarios, and b.) self-programming, which I have begun to study.

I have two pairs of ReSound hearing aids: my 2016 Linx2 models, and my newer Linx Quattros from 2022. I am still using the older Linx2s as my mainstay, just because they are comfortable and familiar.

The situation: I am attempting to essentially duplicate my default Linx2 program and have it as a baseline program in my Linx Quattros. I’m doing this manually, by adjusting the gain handles of course. Because I have two sets of aids which use different software for programming, I cannot simply (to my knowledge) copy and paste a program from one to the other. (Further detail: I’ve created separate patient profiles for each pair of aids.)

Both pairs of aids are MIH models (Microphone-in-Helix).

The observations, which provoke questions:
1.) Simply manipulating the gain curves in the Quattros until their numbers match those in the Linx2s has not created an identical experience. The gain curves match up, but I see that the Output curves do not; the outputs on the Quattros are roughly 10db below the outputs on the Linx2s, despite their gain curves being identical. Interesting! Why is this?

1b.) Should I attempt to manipulate the output values manually as well? Am I going about this the “wrong” way? Is my goal even a sensible one?

2.) I notice that the compression ratios are much higher on the Quattros although the gain curves are, again, virtually identical to those on the Linx2s. Why is this?

3.) My MPOs are high. I have seen people say to not adjust them unless you know what you’re doing - which I don’t. I gather that restricting MPOs increases CR, and vice-versa. Is there any other reason to not mess with MPOs?

4.) When I connect my Linx Quattros, the software recommends that I allow it to calibrate the aids. So far, I have not done this, as I am trying to minimize the number of changes I make while I feel my way around this new field. Should I?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this. I’m poking around the forum to see if any of these are answered elsewhere, but, so far, no dice. Hope I’m not wasting anyone’s time!

Kind regards,
FLoT

#2

Hi there, well you’ve put a lot of work into this already, but you could export your older linx2 and then import onto the Quattro, my understanding is even when done like this, it’s never an exact copy anyway, I think possibly @david.hendon did something like this, maybe he could offer some advice.

1 Like
#3

Hi FLoT

Well I haven’t tried to transfer settings from Aventa to SmartFit myself, but when I bought the LINX 3D to replace my LINX 2, my audiologist phoned Resound to ask them how to do it and the helpdesk told him there was no way other than starting from the audiogram again. So there isn’t some means to export/import the settings between the two programs. Transferring the audiogram numbers manually is a way, but if I were you I would at least use the in situ testing in SmartFit to get up to date loss figures for adjusting the Quattros.

On the specific questions, I think as regards 1) the reason is likely to be that the fitting rule is different. The default is Resound’s own fitting rule (I think it’s called Audiogram+), but personally I find NAL 2 better for my loss. Anyway it’s easy to try different rules (it’s a setting in the top menu bar) and recalculate each time so the output curves reflect your new rule.

Regarding 1b) there is no problem changing the MPO settings. Sometimes people here are warned not to do that because theoretically you might be able to increase them to an unsafe level, but as you have a severe loss, I think you are fine to increase them. Just be sensible. Ask again here if you need more on this.

Regarding 2), the compression ratios have to fit the output below the MPO and if the MPO settings are low then the CRs will need to be higher. I never find the need to play around with the CR, but this totally depends on your loss. I see the CR settings as a way to give you relatively more gain at low levels and less gain at higher levels. So quiet sounds will be less quiet and loud sounds less loud.

Regarding 3) I think I have already answered that. If you drive the output up to the MPO limits, you will hear clipping, which is very unpleasant, especially for music.

Regarding 4) yes you should certainly calibrate when you go into SmartFit with new hearing aids for the first time. It’s the means that the feedback control system knows how to avoid feedback and it allows you to see on the fitting screen if you are getting close to feedback and at what frequency. You shouldn’t try to skip this step. It just means your feedback system is working to some default setting which has nothing to do with your loss.

Other things to say, do get this sorted out because you will find that being able to select different programs and adjust volume/tone controls from your phone is a major advantage. Also Bluetooth streaming for phone calls is very good. Do certainly try the Music program as you are a musician. It turns off as much processing as possible and also has a better feedback suppression setting so the aid doesn’t think a flute is feedback and try to cancel it, for example.

Good luck. I’m happy to help further if you post any issues here.

David

1 Like
#4

Hi, David,

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply. I appreciate your insights and the experience which has gone into forming them.

I myself only have a few minutes here, but I nevertheless went in, wiped my manual program from yesterday, and replaced it with ReSound’s fitting rule. Turns out NAL - NL2 was already selected for me. It is a Music program (I’ve always used a Music program as my default). I’m going to begin with just this as I’m dropping my Linx2s off for repairs today.

One minor detail I noticed: my original question 1B was about whether or not to manually edit the Output values, not the MPOs. Have you ever seen fit to mess with those, as opposed to the gains? Doubtless, they’re interrelated, but it’s something I’ve never previously thought of.

More to come later. Thanks again!
Best,
FLoT

#5

I don’t think you can edit the output values. Basically in the gain screen you can adjust the gain handles and you can see the resulting three curves.

The fitting rule is nothing to do with what sort of program is chosen. I wonder whether you have read the fitting guide? You must do or you will waste a lot of time going off in the wrong direction.

The default standard program is called All Around, but you can add three more programs, for example Music. I also like Outdoor as it doesn’t muck about trying to guess what I’m listening to.

Anyway my point was that you could see what the fitting rule was for your LINX 2s and then use that same fitting rule for your Quattros. But which one you use is entirely up to you. My audiologist says that Resound like you to use their own fitting rule, which is why it’s their default. But she always finds that her customers prefer NAL 2 (mind you, I suspect very few of them express any sort of knowledgeable opinion).

#6

Hi, David,

Copy that. I would be happy to read the Fitting Guide; I’ll just have to find it. Maybe it’s right inside the software and I’ve missed it. I’m usually one for the instruction manual first.

You mention the Outdoor program doesn’t “muck about trying to guess what you’re listening to”. Sounds like you’re describing the aids - I don’t know the technical term - but shifting volumes or inputs or something, like from one moment to the next, the ambient sound gets a lot quieter for the listener because the aids classify it as background noise. I have always resisted that; I find it annoying to not have constant input even if it’s difficult, besides which, in my profession, I’m often trying to listen to fans and motors and things which aids incorrectly classify as background noise.

Anyway, if that’s what we’re discussing, are you implying that this is inherently part of a non-Outdoor program? To my knowledge, in the past, I’ve always successfully had it disabled in every program, and on every one of the three aid pairs I’ve used. (As of today, it is present in my Quattro music program - it wasn’t before I just touched it.)

So yes, time to find that Guide. :smiley:

Best,
FLOT

#7

@tenkan can you point him at the fitting guide please? Thanks.

#8

This is totally a setting in any program. You can adjust it how you want, between different available options, for each program choice. It’s all in the fitting guide.

#9

Sure all done, no problem.

#10

The best way to get your new hearing aids to match your old ones as close as possible would be to use probe microphone measurements to measure exactly what the old ones sound like, and adjust the new ones to match. I know this is the self programming forum, but your audiologist would have the REM equipment to do this for you.

#11

Hi, hubbard, and thanks for the input!

I can see I am probing the depths of not only what I don’t know, but what I am unaware that I don’t know. (The greatest of human Achilles’ heels?)

At the very least, I can see that merely matching gain curves to gain curves, or outputs to outputs, or even several such variables (if it’s even possible to do that) will not necessarily translate into “roughly identical listening experience between two different pairs of hearing aids”. Sure, I can still do what you and others for example have kindly suggested, but where I currently am is: no longer certain that’s actually my goal. Because that might not be the same thing as using the device the way it’s intended to be used, or at the very least, may be putting the means to the end above the end itself. But now we’re crossing far into the theoretical, for which I am neither trained, nor appropriately intoxicated.

How I wish I were, though. In possession of a fraction of the collective knowledge of how sound, hearing loss, and hearing aids actually work. Poking around on this forum is helping me realize just how little I know, and it’s wonderful.

Anyway, to bring it back to the present: I’m fairly sure after reading tenkan’s input on a certain thread (which I had the thought that every newbie should read every post of while refraining from making one themselves) that my first issue with the Quattros is that they are not properly fit. The amount of feedback I’m experiencing is simply ridiculous, even when I turn the volume down. If I press that sucker far into my ear canal, it feels properly seated and eliminates the feedback. I can reliably dislodge it to the point where it screams with about ten seconds’ worth of normal jaw motions. So maybe I should start with that, cause I’m not going to have a good listening experience at all until that’s solved. :smiley:

Best,
FLoT

#12

Knowing that you don’t know what you don’t know is good. When I started thinking of trying DIY, I was uncomfortable with the idea of using software intended for people with some knowledge of audiology. I got myself an audiology textbook that was outdated (but not in the basics of human hearing) and therefore inexpensive. It didn’t cover hearing aid fitting, but it did give me a basic understanding of hearing, the associated terminology, and the practice of audiology.

When I toyed with DIY on the Quattros I was using at the time, that’s what happened when I saved settings to the aids without running feedback analysis. Omitting feedback analysis, even if was otherwise unnecessary, appeared to leave them with no feedback suppression.

1 Like
#13

Two good pieces of advice there, x475aws, and thank you for taking the time to offer them!

What a big change having run the Feedback Analysis. Which, if I understand it correctly, is the “Calibration” which is prompted whenever I connect the hearing aids. It sure did cut down on the feedback even though I changed nothing else, and even though the DFS setting for my default program is already at the strongest (“music”) setting.

As I understand it, any time I make adjustments to the aids, after saving them, I will run the calibration feature again and hopefully that will suppress most if not all of the feedback.

Best,
FLOT

#14

Did you read the manual, it’s absolutely essential and in fact both SmartFit and Aventa will insist that you do this, it’s one of the fundamentals of programming, and if you can, it’s actually better to have the correct “sealing” dome or molds then use to much feedback control/management, with a good fitting of your domes/molds you can get away with a very mild setting there.

#15

Did you read my long post at the beginning of this thread? I explained about feedback calibration in answering your question 4!

Also the DFS music setting isn’t the strongest feedback control setting. It’s really the weakest is anything. If you look in the screen where you can alter the DFS setting you will see that the recommended setting will be shown in bold, although you can set it to something else.

The music feedback setting is specifically intended to be used with the Music program, which you need to add manually. The main point of the Music program is that it turns off as much digital processing as it can and lowers the output level a bit to give more headroom for loud parts of the music. The “music” DFS feedback setting is where to avoid the feedback suppression detecting sustained tones, for example from a flute or clarinet, as feedback and trying to cancel it with an out of phase warbley tone!