First impression of Oticon More 1

Hearing Aids
#63

Of course it doesn’t learn by itself, it has to be trained by human through automated ways mathematically (to the tune of 12 million sound scenes). But it’s well trained enough to still perform well on the other billions of sound scenarios that aren’t used to train it.

The OPN S is only better than the OPN mainly in the area of feedback prevention. So the More is better than the original OPN in the area of feedback prevention, plus it can give users more control and flexibility as to how to balance the sound scenes to the user’s preference, compared to the OPN and OPN S where this kind of flexible control is more limited.

Many people already on the OPN and OPN S only find the More improvement to be incremental, and disappointed because they didn’t get that wow factor. But I think that because of the way the More is structured where sounds can be broken down and manipulated/balanced, it’ll be easier in the future to improve this system further as opposed to the old OPN system.

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#64

AI memory matching is one technique and I’ve heard about some university research project working on creating a database of sounds then do memory matching to that sound database when processing sounds for a hearing aid. The disadvantage of memory matching in AI is that you need to have a huge database of sounds, then you need to have adequate processing power to match against this huge database. But I don’t believe that’s what the deep neural network training (used for the More) is about.

In DNN training, a virtual neural network is created and initially it’s very crude and inaccurate in terms of sound processing. But as you feed it samples of sound scenes collected, then analyze its crude result, the deviation/discrepancy between the DNN result and the actual result is then fed backward into the neural network and the weights and biases in the network are mathematically adjusted to minimize this discrepancy in the 2 outcomes. As the data points (sound scenes in this case) are added, the network is further and further refined until eventually with enough (A LOT OF) data, the network (with its very refined weights and biases by now) becomes pretty good at arriving at its own outcome that’s pretty darn close to the actual outcome of the data used in the training with minimal discrepancy. No big data base of sounds is needed, and no fast enough processing to memory match is needed. The trained smart is already inherently built into this neural network through the finely tuned weights and biases at each of its neural node. In another word, Oticon used 12 million sound scenes to train a virtual brain on how to process sound accurately, then the IP/smarts of this virtual brain is put on the More to handle the billions of other sound scenes that it’s not trained on.

It’s easy to label everything a gimmick. To me a gimmick is a sleight of hand to fool people with a deceptively simple system (maybe by using big words) so that they think that this system is much more complicated than it really is. But I don’t really think that Oticon is that kind of a snake oil salesman kind of a company who built a deceptively simple gimmick then use marketing to hype it up as a revolutionary system. I think what they’ve built is legit, and even if it’s only an incremental improvement over their already very well proven and popular OPN and OPN S, it goes to show that they’ve managed to figure out another entire different approach to best the best that they have so far.

2 Likes
#65

Here’s the deal:

  1. Find a good fitter, with whom you can discuss your hearing loss and expectations;

  2. Agree to try a make with which your fitter is very comfortable and knowledgeable;

  3. Do at least a 30-day trial, with tweaking sessions, as required;

  4. If you can hear what you want and expect to hear, keep the audi and the HAs;

  5. If you still can’t hear, determine whether it’s the hardware or the audiologist that is lacking: if it’s the latter, return to (1.) above;

  6. If it’s the hardware, try another make: if the audi balks, return to (1.) above.

As recommended by a number of respected members, be persistent and patient until your hearing expectations are met!

IMO, all the hypothetical discussions aren’t worth squat if you can’t hear! And everyone hears differently, so there is no objective, “scientific” answer.

The “WOW” factor is binary:

HEARS/CAN’T HEAR … easy.

3 Likes
#66

Also, unless you have a mild hearing loss never expect to hear like a normal person again, it isn’t going to happen.

1 Like
#67
  1. Login
  2. Public Profile > Edit Profile (https://www.hearingtracker.com/dashboard)
  3. Navigation > My Hearing Tests > Add Hearing Test (https://www.hearingtracker.com/audios)

Thanks for your posts.

#68

Trying to understand the concept of DNN in hearing aids as Oticon has now introduced in the “More” has stretched my mind beyond its plastic limit!

But, I did find these two articles to be somewhat helpful. And I agree that it appears to be way more than a gimmick.

I will get some Oticon Mores when the price drops…

#69

Does reading the the Chatable article require one to disclose one’s e-mail address?

If so, no thanks!

#70

Given that Oticon’s DNN approach is basically a “black box” to anyone not having access to Oticon’s proprietary data and guided learning protocols, I wonder how useful it is to spend a lot of time hypothesizing about how, exactly, it works.

My mind is happy with this paradigm:

Algorithmic approach: - engineers identify classes of noise that interfere with speech comprehension and write algorithms to recognize and suppress them.

DNN Approach: - engineers teach a black box to identify speech as it occurs in real time and train their noise suppression algorithms not to impinge upon the speech trace.

The way my More1s operate is quite inscrutable to me, but the result is clear: I can hear more sounds around me than I’ve been able to hear in decades, and I can understand the speech presented concurrently to me more easily than with any of the othe devices I’ve worn.

At the beginning, wearing More1s was confusing, since I had gone 6 years without wearing hearing aids regularly, and my brain hearing ability suffered. As I persisted with my acclimatization, the panoply of sounds gradually began to sort itself out and individual sounds fell into place and made sense.

As @cvkemp often notes in his posts, persistence is the key to success. The longer you wear More1s, and the more correctly they are fitted, the more your brain will gradually regain its ability to decode and understand the speech patterns presented to it. This is, by definition, an incremental process: there was no WOW factor for me. My brain had lost its ability to understand speech, and it’s taking a while to get it back.

I feel I’m still detecting improvements in my hearing on a weekly basis, and - although I don’t understand how it works - the DNN that resides like a genie within my HAs continues to work its subtle magic for me as conditions demand it.

That’s plenty good enough for me!

1 Like
New DNN principles in hearing aids
#71

I think it’s the brain hearing part in you that continues to improve as it learns to identify and process more and more of the audio cues made available by the More. Initially with the more obvious audio cues, but then gradually the more subtle audio cues also start to get noticed and picked up by the brain, giving you the impression that the More just seems to get better over time, but it’s More likely (pun intended :slight_smile: ) that it’s the brain hearing that actually gets restored to being better over time toward how it was in the younger years.

2 Likes
#72

I agree 100%, @Volusiano. More’s DNN is static - not dynamic. Its chip had already learned everything in its repertoire of tricks the day it came off the production line.

Let there be no mistake about that!

2 Likes
#73

Hearing Revolution (a subsidiary of Hearing Care Solutions, so same price there too) quoted me a price of $4100 for a pair of More 1. They come with 3 years of manufacturer’s warranty plus loss & damage protection as well as 1 year of service from a local audiologist for fitting a fad follow up appointments. Purchase is made over the phone and then mailed to the local Audi. I purchased my current pair of Opn 1 this way and everything worked just fine.

#74

This

2 Likes
#75

@flashb1024: Thanks, :zap:Flash:zap:! Something has changed in that link since I first clicked on it, though.

Trying to figure it out… (They seem to have added a preview preamble before the email address pane appears.)

Some sort of enhancement for TWS earbuds?

#76

@SpudGunner If you’re using Chrome or Firefox, just go to extensions, and you can add it there.
It’ll show up as an icon on your toolbar, and allow you to use a fake email address whenever you need.

#77

This is a cool link, @flashb1024 ! I just used it to download the Chatable whitepaper. Will post my impression of it after I get a chance to read it, in the other Chatable thread started by @Lostdeaf.

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#78

I just have a 2007 MacBook and my iPhone and iPad. I’m scared to open the MacBook now.

#79

Do This

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#80

Thanks very much, :zap:Flash:zap:! Much obliged!

[Just testing: :potato:Spud:potato: doesn’t have the same visual impact as :zap:Flash:zap:, does it?]

1 Like
#81

Hello,

It’s been over 3 months since I used More 1 Hearing aid from OPN 1. As in previous comments above, now I think it’s better to update what I learned.

First of all, I still love this MORE1 hearing aids because it’s very comfortable on the phone conversation thanks to Telecoil. Considering my previous frustration on the phone conversation, it’s worth me spending money to upgrade.
Secondly, my audiologist couldn’t arrange for the MORE 1 hearing aids -test trial initially, even I asked him a few times. That’s why I ordered online at a reasonable price. I’ve sent my OPN 1 information to the online seller (Audiologist), and he set it up before sending it to me. Anyhow, I’m happy with it.
Thirdly, After getting the More 1, I’ve also purchased Noahlink for the detail setting for myself. Thanks to the information from Volusiano, I could learn and applied to my hearing aids. At first, I tried to set up the highest noise reduction in an easy and challenging environment. It was very comfortable, but the sounds were not very clear and not natural. After a few days of trial, I re-adjust, finding my setting for the noise reduction.
Also, I set up more programs such as Music, Speech in Noise and tested at the different environments. Thanks to the apple watch, it’s pretty easy to switch the program from one to the other. I use a general setting all the time, but when I spend time at home listening to music, I change into a Music setting. The funny thing is, I saw these settings on the Genie2 program, but I was concerned if I screwed up all the information. However, it’s pretty easy and convenient. Yes, under the music setting, the sound is very clear and full.
Also, I sometimes use the “speech in noise” setting when I watch the TV, but most of the time when I work in very noisy surroundings. “speech in noise” is very convenient but not 100% setting. That’s why I’m adjusting a little bit to see what is best for me.

Anyhow, I always felt very sorry to spend time with an audiologist to modify/change something because I felt like “I am a very cranky and annoying client”… Moreover, unfortunately, it wasn’t sufficient time to discuss and find the try and adjust. That’s why sometimes DIY would be another solution for changing and finding detail setting as personal satisfaction.

1 Like
#82

@ubabopepton Glad to hear that the More 1 is working out for you in a DIY situation. Have you updated Genie 2 to 2021.2 and updated your More 1 firmware in order to get the MyMusic program to try it out? That’s a new program that’s supposed to make music listening even better than with the current plain vanilla built-in Music program from before.

Do let us know your impression of this MyMusic program once you’ve had a chance to try it out.