I am seriously considering to upgrade to a pair of Phonak Marvel M70’s and so I subscribed to the Phonak Marvel Hearing Aids group on Facebook.
In this group people repeatedly complain about a “fading problem,” which they describe as having great sound for a few days or weeks and then only muffled sounds after that. They say revisits to audiologists solve the problem only temporarily.
But when I search the internet for “Phonak Marvel fading problems” nothing comes up. I searched this forum, and couldn’t find anything either.
Does anyone know how widespread this problem is? And why it is happening?
No direct experience, but it sounds like it describes getting the wax filters clogged. If somebody produced a lot of wax and didn’t change the wax filters frequently (or get them changed) sound would get muffled. Just a guess.
Not a widespread problem. As said only two things would cause this. Autosense being what I call “too intrusive”. Or a problem with wax or sweat or something interfering with the receiver or speaker/microphone.
I have major issues with any automatic sound/noise reduction program. Some people are more sensitive than others. For me in any environment other than a very loud (crowded restaurants etc) I can detect the HAs compensating for high and low dynamic range in hearing and it drives me nuts. Giving me the sense of muted/muffled hearing on and off. I’ve had both my Audi and a rep from Phonak try to adjust so I could deal with it (just as I had an Opitcon rep on the phone with my Audi on my previous HAs). But 98% of people are not sensitive to that and they love the automatic nature of the HAs.
What I describe is not at all limited the Marvels. All digital HAs do the same in their own way.
Dear mde89651, thank you for your answer. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me. I currently have older phonak models, and I too sometimes notice that the sound is muffled. This is probably the same issue. It bothers me but it doesn’t drive me nuts, so I probably can live with that. Thanks for your input.
Am going to have my Marvel M90 tomorrow for trial. I was on a trial with OPN S1 which was good (except have to choose between warbling of high pitch sounds or to switch off feedback manager and suffer of feedback).
Anyone can advise what can be done to minimize this sound reduction? Am an active person and always in either in office with some eco or noisy places and restaurants?
I don’t have Marvel HA’s but it does not make sense to me that they would fade away after a few days or weeks. All new hearing aids I’m sure sound sharp and edgy until you get used to a new prescription. Also it is fairly common practice to start with a lower gain and then increase it to full prescription over time as the person gets used to the new sounds.
The concerns I would have with the Marvel is that it uses Bluetooth to communicate to one hearing aid, and that aid then uses Bluetooth to communicate to the other hearing aid. Bluetooth does not go through body parts well, so reliability of streaming to the second aid can be an issue if there are no hard surfaces around to bounce off - like outside.
Another issue seems to be that the software used to program the Marvels does not have the capability to increase the bass for streaming. Especially if you have open fittings, the streaming sound can be weak in bass.
If you do not plan to do streaming to a smart phone these are not issues of concern. And if you have closed fittings, the loss of bass when streaming will not be as significant.
I have phonak M90r HA’s and also have the 2.0 MYPHONAK app update. There are controls in the app that allow a full range of adjustments to Bass, mid-level and treble sounds.
I also have and use the phonak Target 6.1 installation and adjustments software which allow a full range of adjustments to all programs including all of the programs in Autosense 3.0.
Can the software adjust the full range equalization in a special program used for streaming only? The gain needed for streaming is quite different from gain needed when listening to normal sounds through the hearing aid microphones, especially with more open fittings. I looked at a pdf guide for the Target software and could not find anything. The guide was pretty basic, so perhaps this capability is there but not covered.
Dear Sierra, thank you for the detailed response. I don’t think I will do a lot of streaming, but I will keep what you said about bluetooth connectivity in mind. I am more worried about sound quality in relation to conversations. I wouldn’t want them fade out during a conversation.
I think Marvels use Bluetooth to stream to one hearing aid and then to the other during streaming, but I don’t think the routine communication between hearing aids is bluetooth. I believe it is some other wireless protocol but I can’t find anything after a quick search. Can anybody confirm or point to a reference? Thanks.
All hearing aids use noise reduction to some degree. At times I find my KS8 hearing aids, especially in the car, sound like they are “fading out”. It happens when things are kind of steady state, like at a constant speed on a smooth highway, the road sounds fade away. Same at a stop light with the turn signals on. The signal light clicking which I never used to hear starts out loud, but then fades down and down in volume. It is the noise reduction working. However, if someone speaks in the car the volume comes right back up again, and there is no problem hearing conversation. The amount of noise reduction can be adjusted in most aids, so the fitter can increase or decrease that effect.
Have you considered Costco for your aids? The are currently selling the Kirkland Signature 9.0 hearing aids for $1500 a pair in the US. They are the Phonak V90 Marvel aids with the 312 battery, and no tinnitus or telcoil option. They are a pretty good value in hearing aids. Costco does the initial testing, and unlimited follow up fitting at no cost over the hearing aid purchase.
There is no communication of the Bluetooth stream between hearing aids. Both aids listen simultaneously to the same stream. Owners of the Marvels can test this easily; when listening to music, if you turn of the any aid, the stream will continue for up to 20 seconds in the other aid until it looses synchronization.
Apologies if I got that wrong. Sometime back there was a Signia Whitepaper (biased as heck) that was stating that the Bluetooth streaming didn’t work as well outside because the 2.4 ghz signal didn’t travel well through the head. It worked better in places with walls so the signal could be reflected. I also thought there was one hearing aid that was selected as a “master.” I’m sure it’s somewhere on the site, but can somebody restate or point me to a source that explains how Phonak BT streaming works? Does it go to both ears simultaneously or to one ear and then transmitted to other ear by BT or other 2.4 ghz signal? Thanks.
I don’t believe that is correct. Phonak is using Classic Bluetooth, not Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE). Classic BT can only connect with one hearing aid. So, it has to stream audio to one hearing aid only. That hearing aid splits the signal to left and right and sends to each ear. It uses Bluetooth, 2.4 GHz, to send to the other ear. As MDB explained that has issues as that high frequency does not go through the head well.
In contrast an MFi iPhone uses BLE and can connect to both aids at the same time. It transmits to the two aids in parallel. It still uses the 2.4 GHz signal, but has the advantage that it is more likely to have a relatively straight shot at going to both ears, but it still depends on where the phone is located relative to body parts. I find holding the phone further away in front of me works best when streaming audio. Putting it in a shirt pocket instead of pants pocket helps too.
Phonak does use BT LE for some things (I’m just not clear on what) They don’t use it for streaming from phone to hearing aid, but perhaps from ear to ear? I’ve yet to find a source that thoroughly explains.
There is this link, but it is technically weak. The article does not distinguish between Bluetooth Classic, and Bluetooth Low Energy. At times it mixes MFi and made for Android together. A lot of it seems to be a collection of hearsay rather than good factual information.
These links provide a little more detailed information. They contain a pitch for Signia’s Ultra e2e technology as well. But, it needs to be kept in mind that they do not use that technology for streaming as BLE streams direct to each hearing aid.