Costco Jabra Enhance Pro Frequency Lowering

Hearing Aids
,
#1

I am a newbie here. I have a pair of Costco Jabra Enhance HA. The Model shows up as Pro PM 8. I Have the Mic and Receiver in Ear version, rechargeable. PM861-DRWC. I bought these in October 2022, and am evaluating them.

My hearing is much worse in my left ear than right. Basically both pretty bad above 2k or so (55db Right, 65 db Left)…really down hill from there…OK (20db) up to 1k in right. With no HA, left is pretty dead, can function with right.

This is my first real HA. I have used some older simpler aids…but they just amplify sound…more to come…

My basic issue is that I can’t hear much of anything above 2-3k.

Summary of my comments:

I am a retired engineer…so pretty savy with the tech.

I have used the Resound SmartFit software with a Noahlink Wireless adapter to look at the HAs.

I have not done any tweaking to the as found settings by Costco.

I find the HAs to be a great amplifier, with good noise attenuation. But I expected more.

Take a look at this link:
https://apps.ntid.rit.edu/NSRT/index.php

It has a really nice speech recognition that I am using as a benchmark (as well as my own observations over the past 4 months).

Bottom line: My speech recognition score (using the above test) is NO different with 1) No HA, 2) A set of old Ovation Excel HA (old school, not programmable) and 3) the new Jabras.

This is in line with my own “field” observations. With the Jabras, sound is louder, but I can’t really understand speech any better… I wondered why?

After spending hours with the SmartFit software, I determined that the Costco Jabras are missing a key feature for my kind of loss. NO frequency lowering! Note that I found that practically all modern Resound HA (the maker of the Jabra) have a frequency lowering feature called “Sound Shaper”. This feature is missing from the Costco Jabra!

I have discussed frequency lowering technology with Prof Joshua Alexander (Purdue University) so have a good basic understanding of the pros and cons of frequency lowering. It is not for everybody, BUT it is a key feature with my kind of loss.

I am trying to ferret out which of the other two Costco HA (Phillips or Rexton) actually have the frequency lowering feature enabled.(Speech Rescue and or Bandwidth Compression).

Thanks for any feedback or comments!

Ethan

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#2

I’d ask Costco if their Phillips and Rexton models have frequency lowering. You might also ask about the Jabras to see if perhaps they chose another name for that brand.
If you’re thinking of returning your Jabras, don’t wait too long.
Regarding speech recognition. The numbers that they get at Costco with adequate loudness are pretty much considered the best you’ll do with hearing aids.

#3

HI MDB
Thanks for the comment. The Costco Jabras don’t have any frequency lowering…I did check to make sure they did not just change the name. The Jabras are otherwise pretty identical to the Resound Omnia 9 as far as I can tell.
I have another 8 weeks of the 6 month eval time left.
Take a look at this paper:
“Potential Mechanisms
for Perception of
Frequency-Lowered
Speech”
Joshua M. Alexander
Ph.D., CCC-"

Alexander notes some good evaluation that demonstrates that frequency lowering can make a significant difference for some patients.

Regards,

Ethan

1 Like
#4

MDB…from your Audiogram, it looks like you might have a similar problem with the “s”, “th”…?? What do you use for HA?

Ethan

#5

Yes, I’m a fan of frequency lowering and familiar with Dr. Alexander’s website. I use Costco’s Kirkland KS9 which uses Sonova’s Sound Recover 2. (I can’t remember if they call it something else, but that’s how it works. It offers the ability to lower the sounds to lower frequencies than other frequency lowering systems. Although if you loss drops off at 2000 hz, you could likely make use of any of the systems. Resounds is the least sophisticated (basically offers 3 choices) so if you want to try frequency lowering, you’d likely be better off with one of the other aids. Prior to my KS9s, I had KS7s which were based on a Rexton aid. It’s frequency lowering system isn’t as sophisticated as Sonova’s, but worked ok for me.

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#6

Hi MDB

Thank you! I am perplexed that the Jabras don’t have the frequency lowering feature I wanted to get the KS10…but alas…no more.

I will try the Philips…I downloaded the fitting sofware (HearSuite) and it appears that the Costco Philips model should have the frequency compression available.

Ethan

1 Like
#7

I think Phillips uses Speech Rescue, which is different than how most frequency lowering works. Josh Alexander has a good explanation of how it works.

#8

Hi MDB

Thank you! I will read up on it.

Ethan

1 Like
#9

Are you sure, it’s called sound shifter I think, it’s under “Advanced Features” click on this and you should see an option for 3 different settings, bottom one should be it.
It’s listed as an option on hearingtracker review. Jabra Enhance Pro Hearing Aids | Models, Reviews, Prices, and Videos

#10

Hi, would you be able and willing to screenshot the gain in your smartfit fitting software? If you could share that with us, that can give some idea of what the hearing aids are providing.

#11

I would definitely recommend his “Frequency lowering amplification master class” on audiology online also. In general, best option is to find a fitter that has had prior experience with it since you should be using PMM to verify the lowering. Basically call around and ask if they can tell you what MAOF is would be a quick way to find out.

I think an aid properly set to NAL-NL2 targets is going to be the most important first step though.

#12

Hi Tenkan

Thank you…The feature did not show up on the fitting software. I will ask when I get to Costco…maybe they have a different version of the fitting software (I am using SmartFit)? I was very surprised I could not find it.
Ethan

#13

Hi Mindsil
Will do…new to this forum…screenshots showing where Sound Shifter should be (not there), my gain settings and my audiogram.

Ethan

HAGain
HAGain1920×1080 186 KB

HANoFrequency
HANoFrequency1920×1080 164 KB

HAAudiogram
HAAudiogram1920×1080 161 KB

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#14

Ok, yes do let everyone know how you get on at Costco, this is definitely something that we all need to know, as Costco use the same SmartFit software.

#15

HI Mindsil
Thank you. New to this, but have been studying it for years. Basic issue is that most HA really just concentrate on amplifying sound (while trying to emphasize speech). I just need a really intelligent HA to emphasize the lost f, s, th sounds…which is what the frequency shifting crudely is trying to do. I read that one HA model (cant recall which) really tries to emphasize those sounds…ie like me asking a speaker to “articulate” a bit…then I can understand them fine.

My older son works for Google…and he knows that they are working on a much more sophisticated method to improve speech comprehension. I find that just upping the volume makes no real difference…as I discussed in my first post. Prof Alexander understood my concerns and did admit that the technology is not quite there yet in consumer available HA…but getting closer! (I hope).

Thank you to all who have so quickly responded to my posts! It is very much appreciated.

Ethan

1 Like
#16

Another very basic problem is that I have hyperacusis…even with my shot hearing, I wear ear plugs for even the most benign activities…can’t tolerate any loud noise…always been like that…even as a kid (when my hearing was more or less ok).

What I really want is a noise suppression HA (in general) that processes the high frequency s, th, f, t, k in manner such that I can understand them a bit more…thought the Jabras were doing that…but alas…just basically amplify all the annoying world sounds while not improving speech recognition a bit…common problem as far as I can see…and really hard to deal with.

At 65 I can wait a bit more…but the clock is ticking…:slight_smile:
Ethan

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#18

Oh, it is because of the MRIE receiver. It’s not an option with the MRIE. Also you are first fit to First Time User settings, likely Audiogram+, and it only at 60% of the gain expected for your loss. NAL-NL2 is likely to have more compression, and if set to NAL-NL2 experienced user targets you will have a better chance. I’d suggest having someone refit them for you to NAL-NL2 as the fitting rule, and fine tune the gain to match the targets using real ear measurements. And then they can engage adaption control at 80%, though to be honest, I’d suggest doing that yourself. You will not be able to use MRIE receivers but it will be worth the change.

3 Likes
#19

Ok got this sorted, your using M&RIE receivers, no option for sound shaper with these, it’s an option for standard receiver by the looks of it.

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#20

Hi Mindsil
Thank you. I intentionally had Costco limit to 60%. Otherwise too loud…not uncommon I know, but from a previous experience with HA a couple years ago, For my entire life, even before my hearing went to hell, everything was always too loud!. I will simply reject if they are too loud, even trying to wear for weeks. I don’t want louder sounds, I want sophisticated sound processing to improve speech comprehension. See my original post. I did the speech comprehension benchmark testing with the exact same external volume for all three cases. I increased the Jabra HA volume to max, along with No Noise or Wind suppression. Absolutely no difference in comprehension. Louder yes, comprehension, no.

My wish list HA modes:

  1. Ear Plug Mode. NRR around 30 db plus or minus
  2. Speech Comprehension mode… Shift s, th, f, t, k to improve comprehension significantly.
  3. Music Mode. Like a nice pair of Bose Headphones. Music sounds great with these. I keep the volume pretty low. No signal processing needed.

I could almost get there with a nice pair of 3M Worktunes Hearing Protection ear muffs with BlueTooth. Just need to add the “world” sound processing to improve the s, th, f, t, k along with active noise cancelling.

I can dream!

Ethan

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#21

Hi Tenkan

Thank you! Fantastic detective work! Costco fitted the RIE Mic as the fitter thought that would help with speech comprehension/location. Did not. I think I will switch to the Philips as they seem to have more options for Frequency shifting than the Jabra default (three settings)…but see my above wish list. Somebody will offer something like this…or maybe I will have to make myself…:slight_smile: I have had my own custom Electronics business for 25 years. The impetus was to make an digital power meter that nobody else was selling. I try hard not to reinvent the wheel…but sometimes that is the only option. I have been inventing, customizing and tweaking my whole life.

Bose seemed to be going down the road I am interested in with the HearPhones…but switched to the “dark side” of conventional HA…:frowning:

Thank you very much!

Ethan

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