Concerns about the noise problem

Hearing Aids
#1

After looking at the news coming out of the EUHA 2018, I feel a little underwhelmed by progress within the hearing aid industry. Yes, Phonak has come out with Marvel, that has a number of features and benefits, but I can’t help that feel that no company has made any strides with respect to the noise problem and hearing in difficult situations.

There is a lot of excitement about lithium rechargeables and direct phone connectivity. Neither of which is important to me. Yes, these are features that will attract new customers, but I can’t help but think that they only real progress was made by Oticon OPN in 2016 and nothing has moved since then.

Does anybody else feel this way?

5 Likes
#2

phonak invention new is roger direct for group discussion that with 6 mic provide super directionality and conectivity to every phone android and ios thats all

#3

Yeah, I’m aware of it, but it’s an accessory, albeit a very good one. But it does require expensive roger receivers and can’t be deployed inconspicuously or at all in moving group situations (I guess somebody will say it can be pinned to your shirt or something) - but I’ve not read any anecdotal reports of anyone doing this.

#4

Once they are released, you won’t need Roger receivers as the new HAs are RogerDirect which will work without receivers.

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#5

I personally think noise reduction on my Phonak Brio P-UP is pretty good. I can hear better in noise compared to my hearing friends. The other week, I had to tell them to be quiet as they were shouting as it was so noisy.

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#6

Sure, to a certain extent I agree with you. I am not saying progress hasn’t been made. For me, I have been in situations where my Phonaks have performed really well in noise. I was at a wedding a couple of months back, and I was astonished that I could hear and have a conversation with a couple of friends when the surrounding music was 100db+. The problem is that there have been other situations where I have not been so lucky, particularly in pubs with 6+ people talking quickly. I am not sure what it is about these other environments, whether it be just the pace of the conversation, the number of talkers, the presence of music, or what.

My concern is that we are getting caught up with features like rechargeables, MFI, android connectivity etc… which whilst very important, are not as important for me as being able to be confident in all environments and conversing with people. I have seen the claims about AutoSense 3.0 from Phonak and a “60% speech improvement”. These are impressive claims, but we don’t know the benchmark to start off with. A 60% improvement over what? And in what environments? I think the phrase smoke and mirrors comes in here. There used to be a lot of literature about signal to noise ratios, beamforming, improvements in noise etc, but these seem to be replaced with stuff like mobile phone connectivity, which I find absolutely bewildering. Yes, it’s great that I can communicate on the phone, but that’s only 5% of my day. What else is going on?

3 Likes
#7

Yes I can see where you are coming from.

I personally am not interested in connecting to my iPhone or rechargeable’s.

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#8

I fully agree with you and I too don’t need accessories at this time. Noise problem is my main concern. I wear Phonak Naida Q50Ric. Still have problems in situations and road noise in car. If I’m in a large area like Costco or a large grocery store the minute I walk in my hearing aids compress as the audiologist said to protect my hearing. These large stores have an echo effect which seems to lower my hearing aids to a softer program automatically which interferes with listening to people. Thank you for posting.

1 Like
#9

Interesting. I wear Phonak Naida Q50 Ric. Do you happen to know the comparison of your Phonak Brio P-UP to mine? Always looking for a better set of aids for noise reduction.

#10

I know exactly your problem with regards to going into large grocery stores. I believe, what happened to me, was that the AutoSense OS would put the hearing aids into a calm situation setting, which lowered the bass somewhat. By the time I got to the tills/checkout, I was really struggling hearing the cashier, because the bass was lowered by at least 6db (my perception anyway). What solved the problem was that I learned about Real Ear Measurement testing, and I ended up doing an in-situ test (I self program my Phonaks), using Audiogram Direct. I discovered that the bass, and amplification in general was way too low, and this was being exacerbated when the calm situation program was being used in stores. Since then, it has been fine - no perception of loss of volume in the stores and I hear the cashier better. I don’t know if that helps.

1 Like
#11

BUT, if HA’s are still only at 1990’s Pentium processor levels yet phones are approaching today’s laptop levels, there is the chance, with sufficient connectivity speed between phone and HA, that a phone, rather than a central server, could do all the processing necessary for greatly improved signal-in-noise detection. I just read that Qualcomm is offering a new Wi-Fi standard that will offer 10 Gbs speed and be competitive with 5G. I guess the problem is that anything speedy will burn up HA battery life like crazy. But 10 years ago saying we’d have phones that could do deep learning would seem crazy. Good hearing is the most important thing about HA’s but dismissing the importance of connectivity as just auxiliary fluff might be a little short-sighted. Also, if you need hearing aids for getting the correct sound in your ears, other potentially future desirable wearables (your smartwatch, all new improved Google Glasses(?), the HoloLens or Magic Leap(?)) as well as your phone might want to have good connectivity with your HA’s.

My wife, although a highly trained professional, used to be terribly computer-phobic. I couldn’t interest her in anything much about the web or what not. Now that she’s discovered the iPhone, she’s come around 180 deg. So I think it will only take the right “killer” app to bring many people around. I like ambient AI assistants a lot. If my HA’s could work well as a portable Cortana, Google Home, Alexa, or Siri, I’d be very happy for that connectivity. I bet it’s coming somewhere down the road. And folks may some day find it as indispensable as my wife finds her iPhone. Maybe a reason to wear a device(s) in your ear(s) even if you don’t need hearing correction?

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#12

Well, you are much more intelligent than I when it comes to self programming. I will bring this up to my audiologist. Yes, my problem is not hearing the check out person, or as matter of fact, some teller’s in my bank and that is very disturbing to me. Thank you.

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#13

Also, I’ve had the REM testing.

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#14

Hey Google mute my hearing aids. (when the blender or vacuum starts)

Hey Siri change my hearing aids to Outdoor program.

:+1:t4:

1 Like
#15

Actually, a good part of the connectivity that I look forward to doesn’t even require that much AI. I like the Waze driving app (social networking on the road), particularly when it alerts me to an accident ahead or a traffic jam or shutdown on the Interstate around a bend or over the hill where I can’t see.

My wife does not like the Waze voice blaring out of the phone on the dashboard mount above the road and car AC noise while zipping down the highway at 70 mph. So one connectivity solution that I’m looking forward to is to get Waze info directly in my hears from phone thru HA’s and my wife won’t have to hear them. For years, I’ve thought about using a voice-controlled app/driving map and especially with a hearing deficit and high-speed driving road noise, all that might work “more better” if I at least could hear voice directions from the mapping software directly in my har and even better if I can figure out a good noise-canceling mic setup to talk to the voice-controlled driving program and not risk life-and-limb trying to punch choices on a dashboard map while zipping down the road at high speed and weaving traffic all around. Ever since the wife and I got hopelessly lost for hours while searching for the San Jacinto monument in the Houston area about two decades ago, I won’t drive anywhere far from home without a GPS mapping device.

#16

yes also for me in fair noisy one to one is clear group talking huh i cant though my loss is less. i have problem with noise and also wind like fan running, i cant talk on party and social gathering any one here or i am alone.?

#17

Speech in babble is hard. A friend of mine works as a high-level mathematics consultant for military signal detection, and they cannot do it well yet with modern regular-sized computers. The brain is cool. The auditory system is cool. We cannot do what it does yet.

Given the possible benefits that one can get from a secondary device like a roger system, why do you think people are so adverse to using them? Or even trying them?

REM and in-situ audiometry are not the same thing.

2 Likes
#18

They are equal to the Phonak Naida Q90 UPs.

#19

Thank you so much Zebras.

#20

I went on line and the term in-site test said it’s the same as REM just another name for it. Please clarify.