I don’t think either of those hearing aids frequency lowering system is going to help you as they don’t shift the sound low enough to be of use to you. Phonak’s Naida has Sound Recover 2 which can lower sounds down to 800hz. Have you considered a cochlear implant?
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Probably a cochlear implant will be the next step but for now I still have good speech recognition score that allows me to understand even complex conversations. I know its pretty uncommon for such degree of hearing loss but the visual cues help me a lot. In my country there is not enough support for cochlear implantation on adults - you have to pay an extra money for the latest technology and full price for second implant. Is the Sound Recover 2 available with Naida Belong UP?
Yes, Sound Recover 2 is available with Naida Belong UP. Impressive that you have good speech recognition in complex conversations. Do the hearing aids you use now use frequency lowering? If not, it may take awhile to get used to or you may just decide you don’t like it. Since you have some hearing in one ear down to 2000hz it might be worth trying the Oticon Exceed, but I think the Phonak Naida would likely be better.
I’m struck by the fact that the audiogram doesn’t always tell the whole story. We have a member with a perfect audiogram who cannot hear her children, which has been explained to her as some kind of central auditory processing problem. With your audiogram showing so much loss, it’s amazing you can hear speech at all. You must have great lip reading skills to supplement your residual hearing.
Welcome to our group. I have been wearing hearing aids for many years, and I still get a great deal out of this group. Check out the cochlear implant section as well as the hearing aid section. There is often a lot of help not just in using our devices but in being able to afford them --Steve
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I too am deaf from about 2000 hertz up. Knowing this I do not put gain in these deaf frequency zones. I have also learned I do not need UP aids based on these facts.
Frequency lowering is absolutely wonderful for me. I use Phonak aids with Sound Recover 2 which has the lowest frequency lowering technology at this time. In fact a set of Phonak Audeo M90 RT aids with P receivers do the trick very well.
If you still have hearing in the upper frequencies this concept might not be best for you.
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Actually I don’t rely on lip reading a lot, can talk on the phone with no problems most of the cases. I guess there is an auditory memory involved because I can’t understand English speech, English is not my native language and is really hard to understand more than a word or two in a sentence.
I’m currently testing Sound Shaper on Moderate option with cut-off frequency at 3500 Hz and my first impressions are that I really hear more sound but I still can’t say if that improves speech understanding. I think that Speech Rescue or Sound Recover 2 would be better options, but on the other hand I really like the features of Enzo Q especially the Equalizer in the Smart 3D app and ASHA. My tolerance threshold for the low and middle frequencies is lower and I like the possibility to lower Bass and Middle with the equalizer in more noisy environments. I’m not using frequency lowering with my Widexs.
VAC+ is very helpful algorithm by Oticon that REALLY tries to emphasize speech. I’m going to test NAL-NL2, NAL-NL1 and DSL5-Adult with the Enzo to compare with VAC+. Frequency lowering and a good soft speech booster algorithm are my top priorities.
I don’t know the technical method that SR2 uses, but I use it, and it does work for me, somewhat. I got some Resound aids from the VA, turned their version of frequency lowering on, and couldn’t tell that it did anything. I am sure it must work for most who try it, or they wouldn’t have it as an option. SR2 does compress the high frequencies a lot. When using a sound generator app with my phone, I can hear 9 KHz pretty well. But, it sounds about like 5 KHz to me. SR 2 does produce a lot of what I call artifacts, or what some might call distortion. Everyone has a lot of sibilance. I notice this much more with TV than live speech. It takes some getting used to. It does help when watching TV. Less so in actual conversation. Due to my severe high frequency loss, Target wants to jack the high frequency gain way up. The result is that the now lowered frequencies are too loud due to recruitment. This has taken a lot of adjustments to get right. I am still not there. Much to my surprise, I don’t notice that it does anything to music. Most frequencies in music are below the range for SR2 to work. Since I have had hearing loss for a very long time, I don’t miss a lot of the sounds I don’t hear. In fact, I find wearing hearing aids annoying. Everyone tells me I will get used to them in time. I am beginning to think I won’t.
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@Volusiano can you please check in Genie the lowest frequency destination region available for Speech Rescue? I need to know how much lowering is possible with Speech Rescue, there is no clarification in the white paper regarding the available 10 options.
You might find this website helpful: SpeechRescue Fitting Assistant
The lowest setting for Speech Rescue is a destination from 1587 hz to 2429 hz.
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I have tried most of these algorithms. This is my opinion only but I found that any of them would hurt my speech recognition when switched to each one. I did make programming changes on NAL2 and DSL5 to try and get my speech recognition back. What I found was those two algorithms could be programmed to get my speech recognition back to where it originally was. So it appears to me it is still all about getting your aids properly programmed for your loss no matter what algorithm you use.
Using Phonak Sound Recover 2 at its most aggressive settings (800 hertz low cut off) I can now hear birds, kitchen alarms, smoke alarms and many other sounds I could not hear before. It did take a few months to learn what these sounds were and how to use these new sounds to help with speech recognition.
Good luck with your search for new aids.
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@sayer, it looks like MDB gave you the info already. Here are some more info if you’re interested. I use the Configuration 1 myself and I have a lot of success with it.
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I have always been a fan of Oticon and Phonak. The speech rescue just might work for me but the OP has more hearing loss at lower frequencies than I do. I suspect Phonak would be a better choice for his loss.
I agree with @Raudrive that the lowest destination configuration for Speech Rescue may still not be low enough for @sayer 's hearing loss. In theory Sound Recover 2 with its even lower destination value seems like a more suitable frequency lowering option for @sayer.
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I tried a frequency generator app to check the audible speech cues for the most common speech level - around 65 db at 1 meter distance. The sound coming from my s10’s speaker is measured with a decibel meter app from another device. I listened through the Enzo hearing aids with sound at 10 out of 13 possible levels (enough high for my taste).
The usable frequencies that can provide audibility with less effort for lowered high frequency speech cues according to my subjective opinion are in the 0-1500Hz range for the right, and 0-1900Hz for the left ear. I know that comparing frequency sounds is not the same as comparing speech audibility but I hope that my experiment is in the right direction. With Sound Recover 2 I can get 700 Hz for the right and 1100 Hz for the left ear that are usable for frequency lowering. I’m not sure this will work, but it’s worth a try.
Just how old is the non-latest technology? Because one free implant still seems like it would serve you better…
The last time I’ve checked the price was around 8500 usd extra money for the newest processor by Med-El. The old processor was free but only the first implantation and after that only for children and teenagers every 6 or 7 years is allowed free replacement with a new processor. CI is out of question for me due to cost and my feeling I can hear well with HA in quiet and moderate noise situations.
I’m confused with the difference between my audiogram and the test I did with low frequency sounds pretty audible at 65 db to 1500 Hz (right) and 1900Hz (left ear). My audiogram states that I have no decent hearing after 1000 Hz, but with HAs I still can hear well frequencies higher than 1000 Hz. At 1200-1300 Hz I can hear the sound as loud as at 900 Hz and with raising the frequencies the sound starts to decrease but still audible to 1900 Hz. Any thoughts on this are welcomed.
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The difference in audiogram results also prove your ability to understand speech. To have the speech understanding you have described it just seems difficult to believe with your advertised audiogram. Also, without aggressive frequency lowering it would be hard to believe you could understand speech.
Maybe getting another audiogram from a different place would help.
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I checked without the HAs now and I really can hear the sound from my S10 speaker but at 1350 Hz for the right and 1800-1850 Hz for the left ear. It’s barely audible but its there, with HAs these frequencies are louder. I measured the db level at 80 db. I’m using the most popular Frequency Generator app for Android.
Hearing aids can output beyond 120 dB. Sound level meter apps are unreliable, and you’d have to appropriately couple the hearing aid to the phone somehow to measure anyway.
This sounds fine. There really isn’t a huge difference between newer tech and slightly older tech. Replacing a CI processor every 6-7 years is pretty standard. Not going to be THAT much more expensive that replacing a hearing aid with the newest tech every 5 years.
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Yes, this is “typical”. The basic audiometer test is “minimum you can hear”. But what we really want is “typical speech” (~~65dB) or “boosted speech” (~~80dB). If there was a meter in the back of your head showing “Medium Loud” we would test for that. I (mis-)spent a lifetime judging sound levels and I did some self-test for soft, medium, and loud. While my >1.5kHz is poor at the lowest levels, it is less bad at medium level and almost-good at loud levels.
I do not know the cause of your hearing loss. There IMHO is a good chance your medium-loud curve is not as low as the threshold implies. (And your experiments agree.) If you have lost your Outer Hair Cells, a poor but easy rule of thumb is that your loss at typical levels is half (or 1/3rd, or 2/3rd…) your loss at threshold. So “120HL” may only be 60dB loss at medium-loud levels. With 30dB boost in a HA that is not so much.
The “120HL” on your chart is the limit of the test, not your hearing. You may be falling off to 130 140HL. You just can’t know because the usual audiometer won’t make that much sound. It does seem you want to get some gain going, and adjust from there.
You probably do need “huge” gain which will invite feedback. The usual ITE squeals 3kHz and limiting gain to lower (or shifted) may avoid squeal. Full earmold is better than even double-rib closed tips. I’d consider body-aid for max gain but I am sure the HA makers are way ahead of me in avoiding a clumsy box.
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