Can phone microphone be used instead of handsfree calling (HA mic) with Phonak hearing aids

[jack2]

Thank Michael_Phonak for the excellent explanation!
May I ask which mobile phones can smoothly use the built-in microphone during calls?
This feature is crucial for call stability, and if addressed,
I believe even more people would choose PHONAK products.
thanks again!
Jack

[jim_lewis]

Thanks. But your explanation didn’t cover how the Car Stereo device type differs from the Hearing Aid device type. Car Stereo can be applied to both phone calls and media streaming, and, IMHO, markedly increases the audio quality of both types of streaming. Thanks if you have an e explanation for that phenomenon.

I don’t detect much difference between using the Hearing Aid device type and the Headphone device type in dictating to the Voice Memo app. I can use my HA mics in both modes to dictate, whereas since dictating should be media, not a phone call, according to your explanation, the HA mics should be off, but they’re not. And the quality of both recordings is nowhere near as good as the Car Stereo device type. The HA mics also work with that type, too.

Basically, it seems for iOS, that the Spheres take control of phone mic input and any app requiring a mic gets the HA input, not the phone mics. The audio quality changes markedly only when Car Streo device type is chosen in the phone settings for BT pairing connection type.

Your explanation did not take account that I am also using Adaptive Bandwidth, not Fixed Bandwidth, in streaming and what the quantitative differences might be there. Does that affect two-way streaming (both directions)?

(will correct any typos later)

[MDB]

There’s been lots of interesting discussion. I’m still unclear if there’s a clear answer to the original question.

[biggar]

@Michael_Phonak

Note: this is only true for Sonova based technology, such as Phonak or Unitron, etc., as they use Classic Bluetooth. Other brands use solutions such as MFi or ASHA, which is upstream only and hence still uses the phone microphone and hence are not truly hands-free.

A number of MFi hearing aids and selected Apple devices can use bidirectional streaming according to an Apple document: https://support.apple.com/en-us/106341

Near the end of the document between the list of hearing aids and Apple devices there is the following statement:

“MFi hearing devices marked with an asterisk (*) in the list above use bidirectional streaming, which allows you to talk hands-free. MFi hearing devices without an asterisk use unidirectional streaming.”

However, I typically use the phone microphone. A number of people (both normal hearing and aid users) I’ve spoken to using the hearing aid mics in my Oticon aids (currently Real 1) say my voice is more easily understood when I’m using the iPhone mic (in my case an old iPhone 12 mini with the current iOS version).

[Zebras]

@biggar

However, I typically use the phone microphone. A number of people (both normal hearing and aid users) I’ve spoken to using the hearing aid mics in my Oticon aids (currently Real 1) say my voice is more easily understood when I’m using the iPhone mic (in my case an old iPhone 12 mini with the current iOS version).

This is what I’ve found with using Oticon and Phonak. No one can hear me with Phonak but they can with Oticon and speaking into the iPhone Mic.

[x475aws]

@jack2

the microphone quality is so poor (a limitation of hearing aids in general, regardless of brand) that it can often cause the person on the other end to struggle to understand.

It’s also my experience that hands-free calls using HA mics deliver poor sound to the other end, especially if the HA wearer is in a noisy place. My theory is it’s because HA mics can’t use directionality to focus on the wearer’s voice. The mics are in a horizontal plane, so they can be set to be selective by azimuth (front-back and side-to-side), but not by elevation. So they can’t focus on the wearer’s voice which comes from below.

[Gilbert]

OK, we agree that the HA mic’s are poor for phone calls and so we want to use the phone’s own mic’s. That means lifting the phone to your face to talk, so why not listen to the phone’s own earpiece speaker. You just need to switch to the Acoustic Phone program and forget all the Bluetooth stuff for phone calls.

[MDB]

I think there’s quite a few people that enjoy the handsfree calls, especially if they’re in a fairly quiet situation.

[jim_lewis]

I’d be interested to know how far back in the Phonak model line the Car Stereo device type is available for the classic BT connection device type and whether using it improves the handsfree call quality for older HA models and whether it’s a choice if using an Android phone.

[MDB]

I have KS9 which is similar to Marvel. In my Samsung Galaxy S23 with Android 14 I have Headphones, Speaker or Others as my options.

[DaveL]

Thanks Gilbert. Your explanation helps me a lot.

DaveL
Mississauga

[Gilbert]

@MDB and others. I think you will find that when you have made a Bluetooth connection between your HA’s and your phone the options for “headphones”, “speaker”, “car audio”, “hearing aids” etc which are offered by your phone are not Bluetooth protocol options. They are adjustments to the “shape” of the sound in order to best suit the device that they are sending the sound to. Hence you may find one or the other of these options sounds better to you.
These options are really intended to be used when streaming music or movies from your phone and not necessarily for phone calls.
Phonak connects in HSP during phone calls and the HA mic’s are live and all the other controls associated with phone calls are activated. You can leave your phone in your pocket and control everything from the buttons on your HA’s
The Target software allows for the mic’s to be turned down during phone calls. Presumably this is to cut the background noise sent to your caller.

[DaveL]

Thanks.
I have so much to learn. But I feel much older after enduring 3 years with my Phonak Audeo Paradise P90 R’s.
Near the end of each working day I feel very tired. Exhausted.
Workman’s compensation. 3rd set of Phonak. First ones were beautiful with an absolutely amazing Audi. Worn ha for over 20 years.
I’ve read a bunch of books. Watched countless videos.
I appreciate your posts.

[Heyjoe]

Hi. I tried this (Acoustic Phone program), but it didn’t work. I had my audiologist enable the program through Target, but it didn’t do anything for phone calls. (I came to know about it through some of the earlier posts on this forum). But then, I have the Phonak L 30 model HA’s, so I’m thinking that feature may work only with the higher models. Or I wonder if it has something to do with having a telecoil. (My audiologist was also surprised with my request to add the Acoustic Phone program, as none of his patients had ever asked for it before !!).

[WhiteHat]

@Heyjoe

Acoustic Phone program

You know which ear the audiologist made to be the ear which hears the call? One side will pick up the receiver sounds of your phone (hold it right up there) and the sound will repeat in both ears. You need to have the phone operate in normal mode, not bt, and you need to put your HAs in the proper program (Acoustic Phone) for this to work. It isn’t automatic. If you hold it to the wrong ear, you won’t hear it.

Maybe this is all understood, but I had to learn it on my own. I only really use it when someone one hands me their phone, saying, “Here, Talk to …”

WH

[Heyjoe]

Thanks for the reply WhiteHat. I think this may require the ‘DuoPhone’ feature to work. (I think I read something like that on another thread here.). The L 30’s don’t have DuoPhone. This could be the reason Acoustic Phone program didn’t work for me. (Which is why I think it may work with higher models like the 50/90.). I tried holding the phone to both ears. . Anyways, since it didn’t work, I had my Audi remove it.