Auracast and purchase of hearing aids now

Hearing Aids
#14

I attach an excerpt from Bluetooth SIG (special interest group)
frequently asked questions section. Auracast - FAQ | Bluetooth® Technology Website

Question “What version of Bluetooth® technology is required to implement Auracast™ broadcast audio?”

Answer “Technically, for any product to support Auracast™ broadcast audio it must support specific features that were introduced in version 5.2 of the Bluetooth Core Specification as well as the Public Broadcast Profile within the set of LE Audio specifications.”

I don’t know whether the specification that applies is hardware or can be achieved by a firmware upgrade. But I suspect that it is not something that can be achieved by a software upgrade.

Regards

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#15

I have been off the board for several months now. I recently upgraded phones to a Pixel 7 pro. I did this because it has the hardware to support Auracast and LC3. I am hoping a new HA will come out soon which will support this new standard (BLE) and that there will be a new Hearing Aid that works with it as well. I hope there will be an upgrade to my pixel phone as well.

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#16

I wonder if someone with experience in both can chime in to share their opinion about how well the Auracast works compared to the Phonak Roger Mic? Also maybe on the technical differences and compatibility differences between them? It seems like the Roger Mic is exclusively for the Phonak platform? While the Auracast can become more universal when more hearing aids support BLE or maybe LC3???

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#17

Although Roger Mics works seamlessly with the latest Phonak aids, they can also be used with receivers that attach to the bottom of BTE aids. Receiver can also be used with Resound MultiMic and Oticon EduMic. Auracast offers the promise of universal compatibility but tough to compare to Roger as Auracast is currently essentially vaporware.
Edit: Roger Mics can also be used with any aid with a t-coil if an additional neck loop device is purchased.

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#18

Thanks for your kind comments. Yes, you are right. There is no HA’s that can connect to the Auracast protocol. I thought MFI HA’s are able to connect directly to Auracast protocol. Hope fully it will be very soon.
Have a nice day.

#19

Auracast is a Bluetooth spec. Roger is a device, so not directly comparable. What Auracast does do is enable devices like the Orsana.

AudioTelligence make claims about the performance of their advice compared to that of “existing assistive listening devices” (what else could it be except Roger?). Hunt around on YouTube if you’re interested. You’ll find demonstrations of its noise reduction.
If the demos are representative of real world performance, they’re pretty amazing.

(5 ways to help people hear better in noisy environments - AudioTelligence)

aiso™ for Hearing can improve the SRT by 16 dB, and at an SNR of minus -5 dB, a typical hearing aid would improve intelligibility by around 50%. One of the existing assistive listening devices would would improve it by around 80%, but aiso™ for Hearing can actually improve speech intelligibility by up to 98%. All of these figures are results from testing the devices not in a lab, but in a real world situation.

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#20

Thanks for the clarification and link references for me to peruse, @d_Wooluf ! I understand much better now! I saw the links for the AudioTelligence Orsana but couldn’t connect it to Auracast until now. Admittedly I was a little lazy and didn’t want to invest the time to learn the details beyond what’s on this thread yet, hence the dumb question.

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#21

If Orsana gadget pick up the voice from the speaker around the table and transmit to the iPhone then the iPhone transmit sound to the HA’s. Is this possible at the moment?
BT 5.2 & above will be available for Vlog/video whereby the sound will be pick up by mic at the speaker and transfer to the Phone by a add-on receiver. If the iPhone record the sound then it might be able to transmit the sound to the HA’s. It is possible?

#22

No. Apple doesn’t do Auracast, so there’s no way for Orsana to transmit anything to an Apple device. It looks like they are trying to enlist Apple as a partner, though. There’s a demonstration of what it would sound like (or what they think it might sound like- unsure which) if Apple Live Listen used their technology.

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#23

The LC3 codec may not be implemented in any hearing devices yet, but many companies are looking at it. The Pixel 7 pro has both the hardware and the o/s version that will support the new standard (with Auracast and LC3) and so I am hoping that they will soon support Auracast. There are also several companies that are offering Auracast dongles.

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#24

I share the same hope, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. As far as I know, neither Google nor Samsung, which both have supposedly compatible hardware/software market LE Audio nor Auracast as a feature. Until major companies start marketing it, I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

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#25

Cochlear Nucleus 8 is the only device that is confirmed to get Auracast in a firmware update but i suspect resound is probably going to release a firmware update for omnia hearing aid as well with auracast feature due to technical similarity between the 2 BT platforms in the resound HA and Cochlear sound processor

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#26

@d_Wooluf , there’s one piece here I’m not understanding. If a transmitter supports LE-Audio / LC3 and the phone supports LE-Audio / LC3, is possible that the phone receives the LE-Audio transmission (I think you called that functioning as an audio sink) which is then passed to normal LE-Audio to a hearing aid that supports BT 5.2 / LE audio like the Oticon More? Or are phone manufacturers only seeing their phones as sound “sources” (e.g. playing a podcast for a group of students) and never as audio sinks (targets) which themselves could be intermediaries.

Part of why I’m asking this is that there would seem to be a need for a phone involved in HA Auracasts in any case. Without a phone (or other intermediate device) there’s no way to choose an Auracast channel (e.g. American Airline flights versus Delta flight announcements, or listen to dialog of Batman versus Everything Everywhere in a movie theatre) or to do something like scan a QR code for a specific Auracast channel. If the phone can be an audio sink, I would think that makes the heavy lifting on the HA side easier (perhaps just enabling LC3).

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#27

I had a good reason to use my phone as a sink a few years ago with Bluetooth Classic. My searches indicated that it was technically possible with a few tweaks to the Bluetooth stack if you knew what you were doing (which I didn’t). I have no idea why phone companies didn’t want to expose that functionality. Support issues? Licensing issues? I hope they do this time around.

If the phone is the sink that opens up Auracast to wired headphones. Maybe mfi/ASHA too, but you might get bandwidth and latency issues.

Thinking about it, your phone is going to be an audio sink anyway. Audio from your hearing aid mics goes back to your phone. That’s no different from receiving an audio stream from a distant device.

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#28

VOCE makes dongle type devices which support Auracast. Available on Amazon.

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#29

I am (was) an engineer (but not in audio) but here is my understanding of how this new Auracast will work:
1)Audio is transmitted to cellphones in 3gp format (simplified MP4).
2) the cellphone has the capability to support LC3/Auracast and if it is selected it will be converted to that format (here it gets a little murky because you don’t want everyone to listen to your phone calls - I would think providers would supply a share/privacy option.
3) An app on your phone would allow you scan for external sourced audio channels but the phone would only be involved in the switching process, not the actual audio content.
4) My guess would be that an incoming call would interrupt any selected channel.

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#31

The use cases I’ve seen for Auracast include personal audio sharing and broadcast, aided listening in halls, churches, cinemas, public address systems, silent tvs in bars and gymnasiums, and assistive devices like this. That’s broad. I think personal audio sharing alone might be enough to drive adoption. Sharing music without needing to know your friends’ brand of earbud or phone could be a compelling use case for young people.

I’m just hoping that if they developed the standard with enough care, this won’t be necessary. It took them almost ten years, so it’s not like they didn’t have enough time.

Auracast is part of the LE Audio spec and LE Audio comes with benefits that have nothing to do with Auracast. Power efficiencies, multiple independent streams, low latency, and decent sound quality should see it part of more consumer devices over time. If LE Audio is on everyone’s mobile phone, and LE Audio is on everyone’s ear buds, business cases for Auracast become simple to make.

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New assistive device from Cambridge, UK
#32

I think currently there is a “killer use case” and that is when one is struggling in noisy, social situations. But I agree with @mdboy that it may not extend to wide adoption and that will be more of a commercial problem for investors and owners. If the technology works and is clearly a disruptor then the question is whether it can grab enough market share from the other offerings out there, like the Roger On iN and other proprietary hearing aid assistive devices + generalised assistive devices, of which there is a few.

The other barrier to wide adoption is the visibility/discreetness of the device. We would all prefer if the technology was encapsulated in our aids. Otherwise it is the case that we have to place the device on the table etc. For young people I can see that being a barrier to entry.

It is a small market. To calculate the numbers it’s the amount of people who have a serious enough hearing loss in noise that is not helped by hearing aids where their social activities warrant them really needing a device. But I would be interested in trialling the device if it became available at a reasonable price point. The Roger On iN, which I own, does not block out extraneous background noise entirely.

#33

I think there’s a bit of confusion between Orsana and Auracast. Orsana cleans up noise and isolates voices. That’s great but it needs a way of getting the audio back to the user. It used wires in the beginning, but that was never going to fly. The only wireless, low latency and potentially universally available solution is Auracast.

If Orsana was something you could buy now, I would make sure that my next aids could connect to it. That means Auracast. I think Orsana could be a “killer” device to encourage hearing aid makers to speed up development of Auracast. Probably not Phonak though.

On paper, It’s exactly what I want. Interoperable, it works, and potentially cheap. I don’t think the market is limited to people with hearing loss. Young people must get sick of having to yell at each other in noisy cafes. There’s also the nifty idea of incorporating it into a charger. Casually plonk it down on a table and no-one need know.

Bring it on.

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#34

@d_Wooluf Thanks for the reply. All great points. I’m definitely hoping you’re right and Auracast and related devices gain tractionl

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