It sure sounds like you would benefit from a good frequency lowering technology. You like Widex, can you give them a try at frequency lowering? They will need to be adjusted to where the S sound lisps. Then wear them until your brain learns and acclimates to the new sounds. It was a struggle with speech for a while but all the new sounds of nature and around the house made it worth it.
It seems Widex is not interested in the UP segment anymore. Their last UP premium HA is Widex Super, released in 2011, almost 10 years ago. Widex also released a budget UP HA in 2012 called Menu with 3, 5 and 10 channels and targeted for India. Audibility Extender is not included in Menu by default, only as add-on. Probably these models are already discontinued.
The Phonak Naida M SP would be a good power aid that has frequency lowering that I know to be very good. The Oticon Exceed could be a good one but the frequency lowering does not go low enough for you.
Do you have a Phonak representative to try the new Naida?
I already requested to test the new Naida Marvel but my audiogram is not fully covered by the fitting range from 800 Hz to 3-4 kHz. In my opinion there is not enough gain to “raise the bar” and increase the MAOF endpoint. Naida B may be a better choice.
You may be right. As a mentioned earlier you might just need to try a couple different aids.
The specs on the Naida M and B are very similar. The Marvel aids do improve speech recognition in my opinion. The Oticon Exceed might be good for you too.
I do believe frequency lowering might really help you.
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I just found an article from 2013 about the effect of Audibility Extender on speech perception especially for profound loss - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1179/1557069X11Y.0000000001 .
The results are just too good to be true 
. The more profoundly hearing-impaired participants from Group B may not have received sufficient amplification in the low-frequency region to ensure audibility of speech sounds with energy concentrations in the low frequencies. It is clear that the HA used in this experiment (Widex Mind 440) cannot cover the most profoundly impaired cases.
On the other hand Widex Super is designed for low-frequency boost:
There are several other articles in favor of Audibility Extender, some sponsored by Widex…
Well, I now have a new audiogram with better results (added in profile). Maybe I’ll qualify for the Naida Marvel SP? My concern is if the benefit from Sound Recover 2 decrease with the Naida SP aid. Is Naida SP enough powerful for my case or I’ll have to stuck with the UP version?
My opinion only…the Phonak Naida M SP aids would work for you with very aggressive Sound Recover 2 settings.
How much aggressive, below 1.1 Hz the speech intelligibility decreases a lot.
The low cut off for me is 800 hertz. When the S starts lisping I stopped.
Initially I heard birds, crickets, buzzers, smoke alarms, car turn signals for the first time in many years. It was amazing. This kept me going. At this time speech was jarbled and not very clear. It took a couple or three months for speech to start clearing up. Music sounds pretty good too. I have two manual programs, speech in 360 and speech in loud noise do pretty good in loud places.
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I’m wondering if the earmold type can expand the max gain of HA with the so called horn effect. Horn effect to increase low or high frequencies can be achieved by using a drilled horn bore, large bore, reverse curve bore etc. It’s not clear if this effect reduces or increases the gain specified in the HA datasheet.
I have read about what you are describing but never heard of anyone getting molds like that. The place I get my molds made does not show anything like this horn design in their showcase.
I suspect you are debating the Naida M SP aids.
It seems that with 3 mm Libby horn I can get 1 dB extra boost after 1400 Hz and up to 5 dB extra boost from 2000 to 3000 Hz. Naida Marvel SP comes with two options for earhooks - damped and undamped. The damper is white in colour that corresponds to 680 Ohms impedance - removing the damper increases the gain from 2 dB up to 11 dB depending on the frequency, with noticeable difference especially at the resonant peaks.
But the standard 2 cc coupler that measures the gain uses a horn tubing too…I’m wondering if the 3 mm Libby is equal to the horn used to measure the official gain?
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Agree about dampers, get the gain.
Have you found anyone who will make molds with the Libby horn? I would also think getting the deepest molds possible would best.
This attachment is very old. Do you think it still stands 35 years later?
I don’t know, its from the book Essentials of modern hearing aids (Todd Rickets, Ruth Bentler, H. Gustav Mueller). Libby horn is pretty standard tubing, I believe all laboratories are offering this approach. The problem is that the tubing that is used to measure the official gain is a horn too. I think that with #13 tubing the official gain is not achievable.
Maybe @Neville or @Um_bongo could help with your question.
I would think the latest software and acoustics have improved since the 1980’s but I am no expert at all.
Hi,
Using Libby Horns for tuning is a bit passé now. Most modern aids have enough power in the LF, but some software features a ‘Bass Boost’ function.
Real Ear Measurement would tell you if it’s necessary or not.
A potential downside is that a Libby Horn ‘always’ provides more gain, this might or might not be a good thing, depending on your experience of wind noise or tyre rumble. Also bear in mind that there’s not much speech information in that area, so what you’re turning up could be masking your speech perception.
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With Sound Recover 2 maxed out - 800 Hz lower cut-off, 1500 Hz upper cut-off and 2700 Hz max output frequency, Libby horn (3 mm) can help with enhancing the lowered “s”. Now I have a decent hearing with SR2 on up to 5200 Hz and after that the sound starts to decrease (checked with a frequency generator app).
Great, if you’re enjoying a benefit from them. Acoustically you’re turning up everything in that range, whether it’s beneficial or not, however if it works for you, crack on.
Subjectively if you prefer the Libby Horn; it’s your Hearing, you set-up the response that works best for you.
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Naida Marvel doesn’t have enough gain to cover my right ear audiogram, thats why I’m considering a new Libby horn style tubing. The area that will be increased with the horn is a bit outside the fitting range of Naida M.