Will my audiologist know if I link my Phonak Marvel M-90's to my Phonak Target software?

I recently read somewhere on this forum that one’s audie would know if the HA’s were connected to the Phonak Target software. Can anyone confirm this? Assuming that no changes were made what would he/she see that would show that this occurred? I don’t want to strain my relationship with my audie but I really would like to see what my profile consists of and also create a backup of that profile on my computer.

You should be able to connect to the aids and look without saving anything to the aids or database.

OK. What if I experiment with some of the settings, but return the HA’s to the original settings by importing the original backup before another visit to my audie?

That will show up.

Thinking about it now I believe you could look and save the setting to your database but not to the aids and it would not show at the audiologist.
You can not make any changes.

I believe the date and time is stored as with other data, have you got another PC you can install target on, you can then check yourself to see what is actually stored on the chip at the time of the last programming session.

I have went in and looked at things, even changed things but did not save this to the aids or database.
Once I got out I realized it was not saved as a session.

Yes of course if you don’t save it, it won’t be stored in the chip.

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Interesting idea. I do have another PC I can install Target on. So your sure exporting the settings for a backup should not write anything to the HA’s? Not even a date/time stamp?

I may be wrong in this , but I believe the aids store the date they were last accessed. I don’t have the same concerns as you. I don’t care if the VA knows I have been programming myself. I plan on telling them that when I go back. What could they possibly do? They are required to give me service. If they fuss, I will laugh at them.

How would they react if you told them that you have a programming device? If you have warranty on the aids and you changed some settings or even just accessing the aids, they might no longer honor your warranty.

There’s nothing in the warranty that says you can’t, the warranty is for manufacturing faults so one would think you would be ok, now if you soft brick them that could be another matter, this used to happen with the older Phonak icube programmer, but I haven’t heard of any modern models or brands having this issue.

I don’t think the manufacturer’s warranty plays a role here. As I understand the VA system, if my aids break, or perhaps I bricked them by careless programming, I just take them back and ask for more. They do have a limit on how many times they will replace aids. When I returned the Resounds they gave me, I seem to remember them asking if they could try to re program them for a better fit. I told them I had the software and programming device and had already done that several times without success. If they don’t like that I did my own programming, what are they going to do?

TLDR: The problem is not between you and the hearing aid dispenser but between the audiologist and their controllers. In a small firm where both are the same person, they will try to make it your problem. It isn’t, though. They are your aids. They are not an authority even when they seem to act like one at times.

My hearing aid dispenser in the Netherlands warned me very strongly about losing the warranty when I programmed the aids myself. After pressing her for more information, she allowed that the manufacturer warranty would remain in place. However, their service would not if my programming would give rise to problems. So I asked them whether she thought they were a good place for me to acquire aids as their service was vaguely dependent on possible problems from programming. At this point the cheeks of the audiologist flared up and she allowed that they weren’t a very good place for it.

This wasn’t the only time that this particular audiologist showed her honesty and she maintained it by positioning herself somewhere between what her supervisor at the chain allowed her and what she should do to give me the best care in her power.

At the end I didn’t get the aids at her place, but bought them second hand. I paid for the audiologist at the university medical center about the same price as for the aids: both around 350€. I still have a very negative feeling about the chain: They would only let me trial ReSound Quattro’s if I was sure to buy them. (This was after I trialed two other hearing aids and found them lacking.) At the question whether she found any contradiction in that statement, she reiterated her position between me and the main office and helping me and that I was indeed right.

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Unless the audiologist loads the settings from your hearing aids, he/she won’t know. BUT, if he/she makes any adjustments, it will overwrite anything you do. Best to tell your audiologist what you are doing and have him/her load the tweaks you made and go from there.

One thing is for sure… every time you connect your hearing aids to Target, your usage statistics are reset… so is convenient that you connect them in the same day

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@John_Green
What exactly do you mean by the “VA system”? Also what does the acronym “VA” stand for?

VA stands for Veterans Administration. It is a commonly used abbreviation, so I didn’t feel the need to spell it out. If you are a veteran, you can get free hearing aids from them. I am not a big fan of the VA, but I got Marvels for free, so I can’t really complain. One abbreviation I don’t use is audi in place of Audiologist. To me, Audi is an automobile. I just have to remember where I am reading, so it doesn’t cause me any confusion.

That’s why I abbreviated audiologist as “Audie” with an “e” on the end as I have seen numerous times on this forum. Re: “VA”, thanks for the clarification. :+1:

I’ve had m-90Rs from the VA for three months. Once I figure out where to get the Target software, [help please??], I will carefully make changes.

Bricking your HA’s
I KNOW if you make changes to ANY device, you CAN BRICK it!, Only by careful design can they try to make it difficult to destroy. But, if somehow you corrupt the part of the OS in the HA that is responsible for communication with your interface, it IS NOW a BRICK. Better routers and some PCs and phones have a “small backup default OS” that can replace the corrupt firmware, then boot, and then you can start from scratch. But, unless planned and have additional hardware, it will be impossible to recover without a trip to the factory. Hard drives were like this long ago… change one jumper, and that drive will lose all ability to locate the data. I am quite sure that Phonak has the ability to un-brick their devices, at least internally. But usually this requires special hardware to jump start the communication.

Making changes that break, mess up your HAs, or hurt you:
I’ve also supported regular PC users, and large PC OEMs for decades. As a user or an OEM, you can cause massive grief, lost time, and sometimes lost hardware if you make changes that are “bad”. This does not mean you shouldn’t, as that is exactly what I intend to do. However, learn good practices so you don’t hurt yourself as well as waste time for whoever is trying to help / support you.

Make massive or critical changes, unknowingly
Do your best to NEVER make any changes without first making a RESTORE-ABLE backup, and keep archives of all old versions, with notes. Think about rewriting the registry in your Windows PC, or your phone for that matter. Do it wrong and you WILL BRICK your device. Make the wrong choice without knowing you did, can also be fatal to a number of systems. My company wrote or designed parts of much of the storage software you now are entrusting your system and data to. When we make any changes, often we “brick” the devices, which is why we created an “image backup” for first internal use, and later, created a product, and later added live snapshot capability. When restoring though, you MUST have other hardware and software active and alive, or cannot restore. You can’t shoot a robot in the head, and later ask it to restore another instance of its brain.

I talked a bit to the VA about making my own changes. The main concerns were bricking, making changes that really could do damage to me, and to not impose undue wasted time for them, trying to repair damage that I did but could have easily avoided. Also consider that during the CoronaVirus, you are unlikely able to even visit your VA hearing center, let alone get them to fix your dumb mistakes.

Won’t happen to modern models.
On some older brands/models from yesteryear you could, Phonak/Unitron with the wireless first version"icube" was one.

The first thing you do is make a copy of your HA, that your audiologist has provided. As for hurting yourself, you mean your pride?

Don’t touch that button if you don’t know what it does! But seriously these things aren’t gonna happen, put it this way if you can write this up on a forum site then you can program any HA, it’s that easy.