Widex Moment Sheer DIY first steps questions

Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY]
#1

Hi fellow DIY-ers. I have found some great resources for teaching myself to work on these hearing aids. Thanks to this forum for making all of this available.

two questions:

  1. any other widex self fitters here that i could reach out to in a pinch?
  2. I have asymmetrical HL, and want to take advantage of the most open domes my HL allows. Is it common (or wise) practice to use different domes in each ear? (ex: round in one and open in the other). That way I can stay within the “fitting range” that greets me as I first open and load the hearing aids into compass.

Thank you!!

#2

Yes sure it’s ok, your left needs a closed dome, open on your right, when you fit your HAs with compass, it’ll program them for each ear anyway, whether you’ve chosen open/closed as the acoustics.

Compass will always load from your last session, so it’ll always be the same unless you change it.
Have you done a in-situ fitting (sensogram) what models are you using.

#3

Thanks Tenkan. Ah, ok, so the latest file (provided you saved it and checked that box) are the current state of the hearing aids. In a sense you could load from either the latest file OR the hearing aids them selves and those settings would be identical? I am wearing widex moment sheer 440s. I thought he had done an in-situ sensogram, but I don’t see that one was done in the software. The fitter uses the Noah system, so I’m not sure if it has its own in-situ program, or how it integrates. He didn’t think it was possible for me to connect to mine without Noah (and the 5k license) but I assured him that the noahlink and my PC with compass were all I needed, and that I had connected many times. I’m not sure what he knows or doesn’t half the time.

#4

Yes, but the fitting software does not ask that you choose which settings to use. It will only ask you to choose when the settings are different.

You don’t “see” in-situ settings. They look the same as other settings, just different method of measuring your hearing loss.

When using In-situ you will discard your current settings in favor of a procedure that plays some tones/beeps for each frequency while you mouse-click confirmation when you hear the beep. When you complete the measurements for each frequency, and for each ear, a new first fit will be calculated to replace your old settings.

If you regret using in-situ to replace your settings, then next time you connect you can (revert back to) a previous session and your in-situ settings will be overwritten.

Database Sessions are never overwritten. They will always be there. You can revert back to a previous session if you make a mistake. Practice listing your database sessions so that you know what each session represents.

Here’s a link to → How to read DIY School PDF files
Suggested DIY School help files;

#5

Thanks - What I meant was i don’t see a logged sensogram when I go into compass and my hearing aid information is loaded and I’m ready to tweak, although i remember him doing one (beeps while wearing hearing aids and telling him when I could hear the tones). My understanding is that normally there’s a check mark next to “sensogram” if one was done. That’s why i wondered if you can do a sensogram for widex inside the “noah” software, instead of inside compass, and that might explain the difference. I know my HAP’s compass looks slightly different than mine, not so much inside compass as in how he gets there. He starts with Noah, NOT by double clicking compass GPS like I would (have to) do.

#6

You don’t need Noah, for anything, period.

Noah (currently Noah4) is just a database system that organizes a large number of clients (who may use different hearing aids and therefore different fitting software). Aside from keeping track of your sessions, starting the proper fitting software, and sending you happy greetings on your birthday, Noah doesn’t do much more than that.

DIYers use a standalone database instead of Noah.

Your Audi usually measures your hearing loss using tones in a booth. That’s different from in-situ when the tones are played in your hearing aids and you mouse click to provide a response.

DIYers can use in-situ to measure their hearing loss. Though you will replace your current settings including any REM measurements that may have been done.

#7

Great info thank so much for being here. So if you switch domes, you’d need to also re-do the sensogram to account for that, correct?

#8

No, you hearing loss is your hearing loss. It is input to prescribe your settings.

Whether you hearing loss is measured in a sound booth, or by in-situ, both are different methods of measuring your hearing loss. Now once you measure you loss (and use it as input to prescribe your settings), it is no longer needed/used for anything.

Now you can go about tweaking/enhancing your prescribed settings.

#9

Thanks, and here’s where I’m getting hung up. If I wore open domes and did a sensogram, and then wore closed dome and did one, I would be relying on the hearing aids less in the former (using my own available hearing), and more in the latter (using only the widex to do the sensogram through). Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t that give two drastically different results based on those dome choice? Not pushing back, but trying to get my head around that. Thanks for helping

#10

Yes, if you change your acoustics and perform (sensogram in-situ) you would get different readings.

Instead use you original settings, then experiment by changing acoustics and see if that improves your hearing.

A quick, but unscientific test is to stick your finger in your ear with the open dome. It will give you a more boom-like quality of sound which you may or may not like. But at least you will get an idea of what it sounds like to use more occluded domes.

#11

Got it, thanks. I think the fear for me is that if I do go with occluded domes, the domes would filter OUT my natural hearing below 100 (the low range of the widex), which is where the bass and bass drum lie (down to 26Hz) and is also where I still have some good natural hearing. I record and mix music so hearing that low frequency area is key to me working. I wanted to use the HAs, at least in this music work application, to only add the high frequencies most affected by my hearing loss, so I can still. earn an income. However, outside of my recording studio and those specific situations, i get a lot of feedback just getting close to a wall or fridge, or sofa back, or even my arm in yoga poses - which is probably a case for more occluded domes in that situation (and I bet speech would be better too), Ugh. I’m kinda backed in a corner, unless a new in-situ might clear that up or there are tweaks for feed back at the settings I like while working (on music production and recording).

#12

Don’t expect miracles from in-situ. It is simply a different way of measuring what has already been measured (and perhaps refined with REM/Real Ear Measurement).

Maybe click this Download link to a PDF file named → Starting-out with a music program

Good luck.

#13

Yes, if you change acoustics you should recalculate that.

The closed domes do have a small vent to help with this, there’s also the tulip style of dome that you could try,
Another which is to have custom made eartips (mold) for your left ear with a decent size vent for low frequencies.

Yeah it’s just something that you’ll have to experiment with, but feedback and adjustments go hand in hand, do if you know your getting to much feedback it’ll be coming from the left ear, this is where a custom made mold would greatly benefit (a better fit in your ear canal as well!)
You should adjust each ear separately when in compass, as in, unlink them and then mute the right microphone and work on the left, and then the same again for the other side.
Have you set up a dedicated music program?

#14

“re-calculate” meaning re do the audio test? (which I think widex calls “Sensogram” if I’m not mistaken)

Great idea, thanks. What’s the go-to place for us DIY types to get domes for trialing like this?

I have been using the “Pure Sound” program when I work on music - because it has zero delay between natural and aided hearing. It is only recommended for mild to moderate loss, which my left ear dips out of, with a few toes into severe. It works the best for me for working on music for a living, however I do have to dial out the lows and mids, leaving only the highs for my brain to feel it’s somewhat familiar territory from what I was used to before my Right ear lost hearing from sudden hearing loss a few months ago. (SSNHL). My left ear had hearing damage from 30 years ago - probably from drumming. But I had accommodated for that and didn’t really even notice it anymore, until the Right ear happened.

also, i forgot to quote you, but re feedback. I seem to get it in both ears, especially when I crank up the highs to hear my wife’s ‘s’ sounds in conversation.

This has been and continues to be a very reassuring and helpful thread, tenkan. I’m graetful to be chatting with you

#15

No just feedback test for now.

Getting domes of eBay is the go to place for most, the prices are way cheaper.
As for the music program it’s got to set up with the right acoustics as well, also the feedback is because of the sounds leaking out past the domes, for right side not a lot can be done there if you want “open” you can reduce it as best you can, now for the left side you can fix it, custom made mold is the way, you can try the domes but sometimes it takes a tight fit to eliminate it.
I understand if your making a living from mixing & grooving then a small cost ($100) for the mold is something you should explore.
One other thing, what experience level do you add in compass and also which algorithm are you using Widex Rationale, as there’s others you could try, say NAL- 2 for instance.

#16

again, excellent direction tenkan. I see my HAP put me in as “experienced” - (no idea why as this is my first set of HAs). what might be the pros and cons of NAL-2 etc? Not sure about the widex rationale area - haven’t seen that one.

I should ask these two questions too: do you know what the order is, from open to closed, of the various dome options widex offers? would it be open, round open, tulip and then ____ ___ ? is that the correct start?

AND, in terms of file management and organization - I’m opening from a previous file, which is cross referenced in a goole doc stating all that I did in that session. Obviously I’m going to mess up in the coming days of experimenting, but I thought if I end session after each change I make, especially if it’s not a simple “undoable” gain level change etc, like when I do a new in-situ sensogram or feedback test - having each of those files saved and cross referenced would allow me to go back incrementally when/if I mess up. I guess the overall question here is what the best adoption of file management to get out of a bad setting session?

#17

Use Session name/or/comment to describe each Database session. Database sessions are never overwritten. They are always there for fallback. If you can’t remember what a session was for, then keep a paperwork diary to write down the date and what you did in each fitting session.

I also like experienced mode. It lets you hear all sounds (including loud sounds that may startle) someone who has been listening to muffled sounds for a long period of time.

#18

PVC, thanks for your helpful comments. What do you mean by “load sounds?”

#19

dyslexic typo = loud sounds :grinning:

#20

ahh, of course - got it. i thought you might be referring to the announcement of program, on/off etc, which have ALSO been too loud, until I turned them down :slight_smile: