Are you still using the ActiveVent receivers? If so do you think they might add to your streaming sound enjoyment, or were you just as satisfied before the ActiveVents were installed?
I do still have the MAV receivers and love them. But the music has been great all along since September. The activevent makes it better. But I gave away my Apple AirPod pros last fall. I don’t know why, ,because I had my audiogram loaded into my phone which helped too. But I’m in love.
WH
Yeah, sticking your fingers in your ears when your wife talks to you is gonna work…to create a huge argument!
Try as you will to explain, I expect this will end badly.
As I’m currently only able to use one ear, following a revision stapedotomy, music via my expensive HiFi isn’t sounding good. I found direct streaming from my phone to the Resound One in my working ear is ok but nothing special. I tried streaming from my Resound Multi Mic and that isn’t any better, in fact it could be worse.
So then I tried using a small DAC/headphone amplifier, an Audioquest Dragonfly Red, hung onto my iPhone and fed into the Multi Mic line input and that really sounds excellent. I am looking forward to trying that with both ears working again once I have the packing out of my operated ear canal.
I hadn’t thought of replacing the iPhone DAC like this before, but it turns out to be really worth doing and I pass it on in case anyone else wants to try it.
AussieJoe == >
You have all your need to create sound that should be the best you’ve EVER heard, w/ or wo/ HA’s, or even a +$20,000 sound system:
Your Goal should be: A flat response through Bluetooth of music from 8 Hz up until it is too high to hear it. Your Bass response CAN be perfect.
Everything else you hear other than that bass, will require your provider to tune your HA’s to your ears, using REM, etc. The problem is in understanding where all the issues are, and removing the biases that most everyone I’ve encountered on this forum and elsewhere has. But, I can prove I’m right, and they can’t prove I’m wrong, since I can test what I’m claiming.
REQUIRED:
- Great Bluetooth music source – Playing great lossless tunes, or FLAC (POST 1980’s)
- – Note that you can also BT from your phone, and use a FREQUENCY GENERATOR, which is the ONLY way you can confirm that the response is flat, from 8 Hz to 20,000 Hz – This means it is the SAME apparent volume for all frequencies.
- – Note that MOST PC drivers at least, won’t provide the ability to tune the treble and bass. But, I’ve learned that if everything else is set properly, the sound can be perfect for ANY volume of the source, even when setting from just the VOL in a web browser.
- Great, well tuned HA’s to YOUR ears
- SEALED custom MOLDS, usually acrylic - - (They come with open, UN-sealed ports)
- – (Since they are always made with open ports, these MUST be sealed, or NO BASS. They make “occlusion plugs” make of silicon rubber for insertion into the D shaped open holes. They are a pain to install, so you won’t be adding them for one day’s use).
I challenge anyone to try this, and verify it if works or fails with a frequency generator.
– If you don’t have a low frequency loss. I can guarantee you’ll hear bass at or below 8 Hz.
– KewlSoft for Android makes a free app to use for testing this.
The problem:
The combination of MR-90’s and acrylic domes will sound great, but only down to the point where the port leaks out most all of the bass. The quotes for frequency response always makes assumptions for how sealed your ear is to the sound. For instance, I have some booming bass from one in-ear headphones that claims < 6 Hz. That’s below your hearing and into the range where you can only feel it. But, pull them even slightly out, and that unseals them, and then bass is mostly ALL GONE! ALL other open ear headphones have to add a bunch of Bass that compensates for this loss. (Which is why you can hear low rider in traffic, a block away.)
“My specs say it only goes down to 100 Hz and falls off”. Yup, it does. And, that is supposed to refer to the AMPLIFIED sound driving that little speaker. Try it through Bluetooth though, driven with a great fidelity source, (likely NOT a microphone or “Roger”), using fully sealed molds, and it will produce EQUALIZED bass down to < 8 Hz. This also means if you are used to your unbalance low rider’s bass sound, it is NOT going to shake you! But, your ears will adjust to hear PRECISELY what the recording engineer designed for you to hear for every recording. Sorry, 1940’s and 1950’s music is still going to not sound good.
I guess this is the point where I kinda throw up my hands, since I’m sure I could debate, and maybe present “evidence” of why great sound is impossible. This is especially true for the engineers that design HA’s. But, I challenge ANYONE to just try precisely what I’m claiming, and THEN say it isn’t what I claim. Then we can find out why I’m wrong. Engineers are a lot like construction guys. They are not usually great designers, and aren’t supposed to be, since their job is to build what others design. Architects however, would never finish the work, if they had to build it. Both disciplines are required, and one more is as well. That’s the visionary that often has to correct both of the other’s shortcomings.
There are reasons why bass is usually not going to come through, and that is by DESIGN. Ambient sound is generally going to be better than anything your HA can deliver. Plus, great Bass is distracting to a conversation. Don’t believe me?? Try a debate next to a low-Rider at full Bass. So, designers made sure NOT to seal off any more than they had to, especially if using molds. The compromise is to simply pull they partially out of your ear, to try to match the “occlusion” that came originally with your molds. For me, this is adequate, most of the time. But, I do have to keep pulling them in or out slightly, quite often.
Check out my other posts of this site, and some are quite detailed. I’ve been using some type of earphone for +64 years since I was 10 years old, and hobbled my “solutions” together myself early on, since they just didn’t manufacture great sounding earphones, without paying a fortune. OTOH, at age 12, I got a professional pair, which surprised me with great sound, even though fed through an 8" tube. Great sound is very elusive, and easy to create solutions that should sound great, but don’t. Hope this works for you!
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Another way to look at it and simpler. Sit yourself in front of a piano. With your left hand reach as far as you can and hit that key. Hear the low base? Now reach as far as you can with your right hand and hit that key. Hear the plink of the key? That’s the music scale. Now take the first 15 keys in the left and the last 15 keys on the right and throw them out. That’s the hearing aid scale because aids want to focus on voice and more everyday sound. So when music plays through your aids it sounds flat because your aids don’t handle the full scales. That’s unnecessary distraction for people with a hearing loss. This is why people have a separate music program added to their aids to open the scale up all the way. But it can add an incredible amount of background noise. This of course is a simple explanation but gives you an idea why people complain that music sounds awful
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That is so simple even I understand…tnx
hass5744 makes a valid point about Music programs and background sounds. When I first got my HAs they had a Music program. My wife and I then went to some classical music concert and I found the Music program annoying for the music passages where the sound was low - this was because the HAs picked up the background audience noise of rustles, seat creaks, sniffs, mutters, etc. I found it better to go to a direction program to pick up the sound directly in front.
In the end I got the Music program removed. Recently I saw a frequency response chart for my HAs’ Music program and it did not add much amplification at the bottom and top frequency ends.
I have been using hearing aids for 15 years. In the last few years my hearing deteriorated and so did the quality of the music sound when streaming it or listening live to music in a concert hall. I have been wearing the Oticon Opn S 1 miniRite for the past 3 years, and regardless of how many attempts have been made by my Audi to adjust the hearing aids using the Genie-2 program, the sound of music is a far cry away from what I remember how it used to sound. According to some research I did and discussions I had with my Audi, the hearing aid speakers (which are sitting inside the ear canals) are acoustically not capable to reproduce very well the lower frequencies because of their very small size.
In my case, music always sounds “tinny” or “flat”, somewhat comparable to setting a sound system to full treble, only. Some “veterans” may still remember the high pitch sound of the early transistor AM transistor radios!
Again, above is based on my own case and experience.
My audiologist explained that hearing aids are tuned for speech and some aids treat music as noise so clip it.
Ask your audiologist to add a ‘Music’ program to your hearing aids, it gives a fuller wider spectrum of sound. Music just does sound right without a music program.
Having said that I tried Apple AirPods which gave a far better sound and fuller base . However I found it more convenient to stream directly to my hearing aids. I also noticed the stream from my iPad sounded better .
For Live Music I tend to remove my hearing aids.
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Agree. Most of the industry is focused on word recognition. Understandably so. But that leaves the music lovers and us musicians wanting more. I have worn hearing aids for 31 years and have only in the last 5 years have I been satisfied with the sound of music. That’s due to finding and switching to the high end Widex hearing aids. Thankful to have found them.
Well I’ve said it before. I think phonak paradise are great at streaming much. But like I’ve also said before just because I think it sounds great doesn’t mean anyone else on the planet will agree
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hass5744 Can you be my audiologist? It’s nice to have someone actually explain this. And now I understand.
And no-one has ever told me you can get a separate music program.
Thank you.
And paul.cleary.nz, I take your point about direction program vs music program. Makes sense also.
Tina I’m sorry to hear you say that. Obviously it depends on what hearing aids you have. My aids come with it’s main priority program which is the normal program and then the audiologist can also install 4 other separate programs which I can manually switch to. Like music, speech in sound etc. Also there may be an app available online which would allow you to adjust your aids yourself or switch to different programs. Again it depends on what hearing aids you’re using. I probably wouldn’t make a good audiologist. People say that sometimes my comments are,shall we say, uncalled for.
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Keyboards are a great way to make HA fittings much more understandable. I think you should also emphasize three different programs though, not just two:
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– Default ambient, tuned to speech – Set the way you first leave with your HA fitting.
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– “Music”, that I’ve never used per se, since as others report, it doesn’t sound much better
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– “Bluetooth Music Streaming”, this could be 100%, since the low bass has been added back into the mix. (But this will still sound awful, unless you have closed the open ports of your custom molds, to hold the bass in. Look at any high end earphones, and they all seal off all the outside air, not to keep sound out so much, but to keep the bass in.)
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?? – ?? “Bluetooth Speech / Phone” I’ve only connected to my PC, tablet, or phone in this mode accidentally. It mostly connects, saying at the PC, “Connected Voice, / Music”. But, when it says “Voice” only, the music sounds poor, but presumably speech is clearer.
– Balance control: – The “Volume Up / Down” on your HA which usually default to both ears, (NOT your music source volume and mute, which is separate and additionally essential.)
This controls how much Bluetooth and how much Ambient sound is mixed in, like this:
------------- Both of these are adjusted together ---------------
—> “UP” Increases music and Decreases ambient sound – Defaults to 5.5
→ .1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5 – MUSIC … – 6 – 7 – 8 – 9 – 10
→ 10 - 9 – 8 – 7 – 6 – AMBIENT – 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 10
—> “Down” Decreases music and Increases ambient sound – Defaults to 5.5
For me at least, I never use the Balance controls, except when trying to “Hyper Listen” to outside speech, and I mute / turn off bluetooth completely. Instead when occluded, and music volume is cranked up, I can’t hear any speech regardless. To talk, I either hit the mute or pause on the Bluetooth source (PC), or I pull one HA partially out, and then I can what is being said.
— “Full or Partial Occlusion Molds” – The amount of air bypassing your molds dictates the amount of Bass that is delivered to you ears.
– If you want “Great Bass” for music, the only way you can get it is to close off all the air. Good Bluetooth mode “receivers” (speakers inside the molds) will produce <8 Hz bass. But, if you open up the molds to air, all the bass leaks out. Take someone with perfect hearing to the mall or best buy. Find the most expensive sealed closed-ear headset or earphone, and plug it into Music with great Bass. Next, pull it away from the ear by 1/8" - 1/4" and ask how it sounds, and if they would buy it, if that’s how they had to wear them. No way, would that be acceptable. Same with your HA’s, posing as earphones–keep the bass in, and it will sound great.
To be honest with you I had the music program removed from my phonak paradise aids. I found that the priority program, autosense, does an exceptional job handling music
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Mr. V,
I have a loss similar, but a little worse, than yours. I recently moved from Phonak Marvel to Phonak Paradise Naida P90 UP. The Bluetooth is better and the quality of streaming music is sigmificantly better. I agree BTE is a step up in sound quality for those of us with profound loss.
I take it with your loss you are using the Phonak Naida UP. I find the sound on these amazing. I used to use a program for music I played that was differrent than streaming music with things like not using Sound Recover. However with the new HA’s, I am not sure that I need that anymore.
I have Resound Presa and I thought the music program was awful. So I can’t be of much help on what to use. I usually put on my headphones with the HA’s on which is best for me or just listen from the computer speakers when it comes to music.
Exactly my experience and my advice. Upgrading to P90Rs with Bluetooth streaming of music has produced a step change in my enjoyment of life.