Which Tech Level to choose with profound loss

#1

Hi Community
I am in struggled with my choices for new HAs.
So i hope to get some inputs from users have experience with comparatively same audiograms.
Today i wear one Bi-Cros system Phonak naida Venture 90.
Actually this system do not make me completly happy so it may time to look for a better solution.
About 4 Years a go i have try Phonak Bolero Q series HA in both ears with not good results .
My Right ears have not reconize any speech and the whole thing was too boomie. i think the Boleros are not designed for my right Ear loss.
I decided than to go with the bicros solution.

In the mean time the good ear has got more loss and i still thinking to try one solution with booth ears again.

So this leads to some questions coming up.

  1. I would Choose Left Naida SP and Right Naida UP B series What you think about that choice?
  2. After reviewing the tech specs and tech levels it is questionable for to choose V70 or V90
    there are only a view difference between the versions which address noisy situations in car and restaurants.
    Actually as i understand that programs work only binaural in the case you have speach reconizing on both ears.
    This can be the case if the Naida can bring me that int to my right ear.
    If not i will only have some noises right ear which can give me more directional feedback only. But this would make the advanced features of the V90 obsolete.
    I actually DIY my HAs with Target since years. But the first fit i would let doing by professional with REM measurment and tweak only small things after.
    I would be very happy to receive some opinions.
    Sorry for my bad english but its not my native language.
    regards
    Ulfrad
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#2

My friend wear a Phonak Naida SP in her moderate ear and a Phonak Nadia UP in her profound ear. They link without any issues and she really likes it.

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#3

Hi Zebra
Thank you very much for your answer.
What exactly you mean with "They Link without any issues "
Like A Cros? Or you say the Directional Beam of the Microfones can do the job just right?
Because the directional beam do as one example mute the Left mic 6db and incrase on the right if the speach comes from the right.
But if on the right is not enough speach recognition than this would fail. or i am maybee wrong?
So the price diff between B70 and B90 is about 1500 $ . And i to try to figure out is it worth .
I will buy the HA online so i have no chance to try them before. I do not want to go to one audologist to try out for free and than buy online . This is a bit against my feelings.

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#4

I changed the Description maybe that would help to find answers better.

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#5

These additional programs need two hearing aids to work properly. But it is not neccessary to have two working ears for the aids to get advantages from the “binaural” programs. Binaural programs need two HAs to to locate the source of speech and differentiate it from noise.

Actually I have tried the following: 1st) I switched to “Speech in loud noise” which is (in my case) focusing straight forward and damps noisy backgrounds. This is working very well for me. 2nd) I switched off one HA. In this case the other HA is no longer able to locate the direction of noise and speech. There is no longer any beamforming applied.

Btw the same applies to bi-cros HAs.

There is nearly no different between Naida B and Naida V models. Naida V is more up to date than Audeo V or CROS V. In your case I would go for an audiologist, eg. Fielmann, and tell the person that you are going to self fit your HAs but would like to test the best combination which HAs fit best for you.

P.S. you can update your profile and enter your country-flag. This helps a lot to give you most suitable answers. :wink:
As I said elsewhere I don’t see valuable differences between B70 and B90. “Speech in car” is very similar to “Speech in noise”. “Speech in loud noise” was deselected in my test-HAs V90 (I am DIY).

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#6

Hi Dani
Thank You very much for your answer!
As you can see from my flag i came from Switzerland so i can speak German of course.
I not think that is a good ide to go to Fielmann at all because i have ask them already for the costs
They ask 1100 bugs per ear so 2200 only for the Fitting. Without the HA.
So i have to go one other road down. I found one audologist near me would do the try outs make new earmolds and the whole thing would cost me 650 Sfr. I think thats fair but i would not buy the HA there
I would buy them in India or South Korea.
Since i have compilot II Air II andt tv streamer it would make senze to stay on the B aids because they ar all compatible . also my HI Pro remain usable.
The other concerns i have is the Fitting range of the naida SP because my right ear is still to good for that range.
I probably will go with the naida B70 will cost me 850 $ each so all together 1700$ .
Actually Fielmann have asked 6200$ for bothbut B90
Inside the Forum of coars i will write english because thats the main language here.
But via PM we can exchange contacts and maybee speak live together.
Regards
Ulf

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#7

I prefer writing in the forum and here in english of course.

You’re right (your LEFT ear is slightly too good for SP). But the difference is only 10 dB at 1.5 and 2kHz and 15dB at 1kHz. Down and up from these frequencies you fit perfectly. If you use closed domes (without vents) then low frequencies are very impressive with Naida B.

My only concern is if you really can benefit from UP for your right ear. Do you know your uncomfortable level (UCL) for your right ear? It should be higher than the MPO of the smaller Naida SP (approx 138 dB).
Another question: what sort of damage is your left ear? Inner ear (=sensorineural) or conductive lost?

If I have to decide then it is a really difficult decision. Maybe I would wait until Naida M is available (approx in autumn’19) although your Compilot/TV connector is no longer usable.

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#8

I will use closed domes. I use that even now with my Audeo for better Bass its sounds more natural to me.
Concerns with my right ear i have but the UCL level is above 140db.
But before i purchase anything i will go to the Audi to make the measurements professional not only in situ with the aids. my loss is one conductive loss .
I also have no chance to have CI because they say one ear is good enough and the costs will not be taken from the Healthcare insurance.
So i know that is a gamble but worst case can be that i need to buy one used cros b for my right ear if all fails. and use the Naida SP Left -I than can sell the UP Naida on Ebay for cheap price.Maybee someone benefit out of that.
But i hope that even with my flat curve it brings me some benefit of direction hearing. anyway even with the cros i always turn may head if somebody speak from the right. It is somhow hardwired in my Brain.
And to wait for the M Series do not really bugs me. The connection issues with M are much more uncomfortabel as the Compilot II and compilot air II .
Today i have one tv streamer on my TV and PC i can connect to the streamer and use my compilot. For example the one on the TV the PC NUC Hades Canyon goes via HDMI to the TV and than to the streamer at the same time. My Phone is also connected at the same time and over that i still can use the compilot and HA as one headset for Skype and or Discord when i play games.
And over that it is also connected to may Laptop and all at he same time whithout the need to pair it all the way its simply automatic.
I am one IT guy so at work i use Skype for business with my HA and stream from the Laptop and all this whithout hassle.
I think the M series are not the answer right now.
It needs to be N or O Series in the Future before it gets really usable.
For the Features and what they can do as HA i not think they are much better than the B series.
And The M series have no cros atm so its anyway not a brainer right now in my case.
And yes the Audeos are 4 Years on it but had a harsh life in the past Camping outdoor my dog have use it as Wrigleys Gum and it was washed alread but survived all ok have replaced the receiver after the Wash machine .But now its time to replace them.

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#9

Okay then forget my suggestion for the Marvels. I have a Compilot II for myself and make heavy use of the big advantage to be able to be connected to two/three other devices at the same time.
With conductive loss you should benefit from Naida UP on your right ear. By the way, Zebras is much more familiar with your type of hearing loss than me.

Do you suffer from conductive loss on your better ear, too? In this case your left ear is not “too good” for Naida SP. Ask Zebras!

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#10

You are correct, advanced & premium = both ears. Entry level will be plenty for just one ear. Try it. If it is no better than your biCros system, then you have saved a lot of money.

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#11

Update here
In the mean time i got some test Naida 70 Left SP Right UP
The Audi did only a Little actually he used only the In Situ inside Target. What i can do also my self.
No real Testing or REM whatever happen so far.
He suggested to me that i do not Need any programs because Auto is good enough .He have set the Level to 90% i. I told him why not 100% i wear HAs since years i am used to .He said no. 90% is good enough.
I still feel that Left i hear a bit muffled compared to the Audeos i use normaly.
I told him that i Need at least one Music Program for the test as Minimum. After Little resistance he did that.
I got two ermolds with Thermotec. One of them i think needed to be adjusted.
It is strange after a while i got less Sound.
I can press the earmold on side on the tube 1 mm and Sound is than back. If the mold moves only a liitle bit i feel disconnected.( the movement must be minimal i can not even feel a distance when i adjust them back. Maybee the one sided press move the voice more directly to the eardrum i dont know.
One other strange thing is that when i drive with the Radio on ,than the automatic sometimes begin to increase the Overall sound Level so i can hear quite well and after it cut off to half Level . So the noises come like waves up and than down. This effect goes on when the Music start — ramp level up than cut off the whole lenght of the track till new track.
But so far after many years i can hear on my Right which is great.
I was a bit sceptical ,if this constellation can work because of my good bone conduction Levels on the left.
I can not Change anything because the HAs are Trials.
But Dani maybee you can give me a hint what cause this ramp up Sound Levels with one new track.
And what can cause the earmolds to behave like this.

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#12

Which Naida 70 aids do you have?
The example you have in your car, were the aids in auto? If so the aids were changing programs. My Naida V90 aids do this too. I notice this volume change when I am around machine noise and in the truck driving. Planning to make a few programs changes to make better.

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#13

Yes the Aids are changing the Programs and they do it too frequently. I Need to take out that program from the OS but i can do that only after i have buy the new ones. Right now i have only th Trial ones.
They are the Belong series.

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#14

The B and V Naida aids are very much alike.
I am hoping to either change the gains between the OS programs to improve this issue or change the response time or sensitivity of the OS changing. First I will try the sensitivity.

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#15

Sorry, I didn’t realize that you mentioned my name. In those cases you should add the at-sign in front of the name then the user gets an email immediately.

Concerning your earmolds I can’t give you any hint.

As Raudrive already said. When driving in the car it is the Auto-OS that drives you nuts. It looks like your HAs switches between “speech in noise” and “comfort in noise”. If your audiologist does not change anything to the defaults then “speech in noise” is increased and “comfort in noise” is decreased compared to initial fitting (“calm situation”). By default the switch takes up to 30 seconds. My aids are programmed so that the switch takes 12 seconds (the shortest available). This is still way too long for me.
For this reason I changed “comfort in noise” so that it matches “speech in noise”. (I prefer to understand what is spoken over comfort). Auto-OS also has a music-program. I had to reduce music-program, too: When I had to go to church and the choir started to sing then the music-program suddenly popped in and it was suddenly too loud.
By the way, there is no need to program an extra manual music-program. Your audiologist can mark the auto-music with a number for manual selection (in my case it is number “1”, i.e. the first press on my running HA switches to music-program).

In fact meanwhile music is the program I use most often. I tried to set the gains in “calm situation” the same as music and disabled all features like music. But It still sounds different than the music-program :frowning:

You wrote that your audi did not any REM, sets target to only 90% and claims that Auto-OS is good enough. If you have the possibility I suggest that you change your audiologist. s/he seems not to want to help you.
If you don’t test a program (in 70 only available as manual progam) “speech in loud noise” then I think you even don’t need Tech Level 70. In this case 50 is enough. You also should test “acustic telephone with DuoPhone” which has to be programmed by your audi explicitly.

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#16

Thank You very much Dani for your suggestions.
So far i am quite happy with the results because it have Show me that it is possible to hear on my Right ear and i got Stereo Feeling the first time after many years.
The Approach of my Audi is exactly what i have Always experienced in my area. So this is the reason why i do DIY .
I let him correct my mold and when this is dono i will give my Test HAs back and will purchase on Ebay
Im am now sure that this naidas are a good choice for me.
I was not sure because it is complicated with the to good bone conduction Levels on the left.
And i think that when i would tweak und use the Right compression Settings on the left i can get out much more Benefit as the Basic Settings do.
And i also think that the V70 are good enough .About V50 i am not sure.
Maybee they are to low because i can also hear one quality difference on my Right side when i compare the Venture audeo 90 against the Naida 70s .
However i cant be sure About that before i can touch the HAs my self.

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#17

I got into the Target program yesterday to look at the AutoSense OS.
When you select the AutoSense OS you can select the “open program options”. In that you have “Activation level” and “Transition speed”.
I increased the activation level towards very loud. This has helped the AutoSense OS from changing programs too quickly in noisy areas.
I actually like the fact that in very loud atmospheres the aids will shut down. They are more like hearing protection then.

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