Usable Gain Phonak Audeo vs. Exelia

Hello,

I’m wondering if somebody out there could help me understand how to compare hearing aids in terms of usable gain. My current hearing aids are not providing enough volume in some situations and I have a lot of problems with feedback. My audiologist suggested that bte aids would provide more volume with less feedback. I tried Widex Mind 440 m4-19 but had to return them because the seam in the tubing was irritating and caused sores. Also, they weren’t very helpful in noisy situations. I am now considering Phonak Audeo Yes IX with XP receiver, (hopefully the slim, flexible tube would be more comfortable), or Exelia Art Full Shell P. I like the fact that the Exelia have a telecoil so I could use them with my ‘My Link’ FM without the need for another receiver, but I wonder if they will be much better than my current aids in terms of usable gain. I have looked at the technical data available for all three hearing aids but haven’t had much success trying to make sense of it all. Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Audiogram Results:
0250Hz L15 R15
0500Hz L20 R20
0750Hz L30 R30
1000Hz L45 R50
1500Hz L60 R70
2000Hz L65 R75
3000Hz L70 R85
4000Hz L80 R90
8000Hz L90 R95

As far as gain is concerned, the Audeo YES w/ power receivers or Exelia Art BTE’s should have plenty of gain, at least based on the audio you provided.

In addition, for the highs, Sound Recover can be used, which is not available on the previous hearing aids you used.

Feedback is almost never an issue with these hearing aids.

If the hearing were much worse, then you could use Naida, but that should be necessary at all. You can have a very cosmetically appealing and great performing solution this way.

If you need Telecoil, then you will need to stick with the Exelia Art, as the Audeo YES does not have a telecoil, which is less and issue now with Icom and bluetooth.

At first glance, your audiogram does NOT shout HIGH POWER AIDS at me.

I’m away from my NOAH system, but a tulip plus standard speaker plus frequency compression on an Audeo IX might work.

Your lows are quite good - so watch out for occlusion with power or other solid domes.

Thanks so much for your responses EnglishDispenser and Admin. I appreciate your comments and suggestions!

EnglishDispenser, is a tulip a type of dome? When I looked at the information on fitting range for the Phonak Audeo Yes IX standard receiver, I noticed that the graph didn’t go below 90db, whereas my loss is at 95db at 6K. I figured this meant that I required the power receiver. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting the information? Also, I recently read an article recommending that your needs re: amplification should fall around the mid-range of the hearing aids capabilities. I believe the rationale was that the sound quality would be better this way and you’d have some room for adjustment if your hearing declined. I’d appreciate your opinion on this!

Thanks again!

There’s not a lot of speech data at 6K.

Also, with frequency shifting, some high frequency stuff will be moved to a <90dB zone.

With an Audeo you can always switch to a clunky power speaker if/when needed.

Yes, the tulip is a dome: 2 tiny soft flaps of plastic rather than an open grid.

With anything more solid than a tulip, there is a risk of ‘head in a bucket’ occlusion effects.

So … for an initial trial go for an Audeo IX with standard speakers & tulip domes and with some degree of frequency shifting.

If that’s too quiet try power domes on a standard speaker.

Don’t bother with the power speaker.

PS Why are YOU and not your supplier doing all this work? Hopefully a decent supplier would point you in the right direction …it’s their area of expertise!

English Dispenser,

I apologize if this is considered off topic.

Are you saying that Gypsi is a candidate for an open-fit Audeo Yes?

My audi said I wasn’t eligble, and had me try a standard Canal Receiver (custom ear mold).

I had the standard receiver for about a week or so, and it sounded very good. When I went for a follow up for volume adjustment so I could have better comprehension in meetings, she quickly changed me to a power receiver. After about 9 trips back I gave up. Power receiver made everyone sound like they were lisping and talking inside a metallic tube - very loud too.

I’m now using open fit America Hears HA’s and am reasonably satisfied, but am still interested in the Audeo Yes IX’s because of the technology advantages (mypilot, Icomm, etc).

Based on your experience, am I a candidate for an open fit Phonak? My audi said I was doubtful for any Phonak open fits based on my audiogram (below).

Do to my regrettable vanity, I prefer thin tubes as opposed to full size earhooks.

Thanks for your expertise.

250 L-15, R-15
500 L-5, R-10
750 L-40, R-45
1000 L-45, R-45
1500 L-55, R-65
2000 L-65, R-65
3000 L-65, R-60
4000 L-75, R-60
8000 L-70, R-75

QUOTE=EnglishDispenser;21670]There’s not a lot of speech data at 6K.

Also, with frequency shifting, some high frequency stuff will be moved to a <90dB zone.

With an Audeo you can always switch to a clunky power speaker if/when needed.

Yes, the tulip is a dome: 2 tiny soft flaps of plastic rather than an open grid.

With anything more solid than a tulip, there is a risk of ‘head in a bucket’ occlusion effects.

So … for an initial trial go for an Audeo IX with standard speakers & tulip domes and with some degree of frequency shifting.

If that’s too quiet try power domes on a standard speaker.

Don’t bother with the power speaker.

PS Why are YOU and not your supplier doing all this work? Hopefully a decent supplier would point you in the right direction …it’s their area of expertise!

An Audeo IX … or to be fair, most modern speaker-in-ear models … can handle a wide range of losses.

Perhaps the ‘true’ original open fit grid domes won’t work … but the half-closed tulip dome … or the much more closed power dome … can help many audiograms.

I’m not sure that I would call a power dome ‘open fit’ … BUT … it will allow a very discreet fitting.

You can almost boil eggs with a power speaker so I rarely need to fit them.

I’m also cautious about custom tips … if a power dome won’t fit, users often seem to have fit problems with custom tips too.

Hello,

This is a follow-up to my initial post. I decided to order the Exelia Art ITC/HS P. When I arrived at my fitting appointment, my Audiologist had already decided that the aids weren’t going to work for me due to insufficient usable gain, which was much less even than my current GN Resound Metrix MX 50-D. She said that the HA’s were probably powerful enough for me, but the feedback management system was very poor, resulting in limited usable gain. I asked whether the Exelia Art Micro BTEs or Audeo Yes IX would be a better choice, but my Audiologist said they wouldn’t be any better because they all use the same feedback management system. I find this confusing because I understood that BTE’s generally provided more flexibility with volume, and fewer feedback problems. I’ve been keen to try Phonak HA’s because of the many features available, including Bluetooth connectivity. My Audiologist is recommending trying the Widex m4-9s. She believes Widex products are better quality and more dependable than Phonak. As stated in my initial post, I returned a pair of Widex m4-19 because the seam on the tubing caused sores, but also I found I wasn’t hearing very well with them in noisy situations. I wonder if the Widex m4-9s would be any better. I’m not sure what to do at this point and I would really appreciate any comments or suggestions that anyone can offer. Thanks!

Hmmmm, something fishy is going on here. Phonak’s feebback management system is at least on par and most likely even better than that of Widex, so either your audi does not know how to activate the feedback management system (unlikely) or she or the practice she works for is in Widex’s pocket. Alternatuvely she might have had a bad experience in the time between your prescription and fitting and now wants to avoid going through it again (unlikely as she probably would have used this as an example of why she would steer away from Phonak). I would bring this to her attention or seek a different audi as you are very likely to get significant clinical benefit from the SoundRecover feature, which is NOT available on the Widex aids. As for dependability, both are quite equal again. The fact that she gave you so many different reasons seems like she is trying to cover something up. Phonak Audeo Yes Ix and Exelia Art’s have technically superior noise reduction than the Widex Mind. It is not that the Widex is a poor instrument, it is just that SoundRecover is probably the single feature that can significantly improve things for you.

Thanks for the information, Hearnow! I think I will look for another Audiologist. So, do you think the Exelia Art ITC would have worked for me if they had been set up properly? I prefer to have the volume set fairly high. Also, is it true that BTE’s can deliver more volume with less feedback than ITCs?

BTE’s can and do deliver more volume with less feedback than ITC. I had to move from ITC to BTE for precisely that reason.

Yes, the Exelia Art ITC/HS Power would work for you, but could be limited by its MPO (maximum power output). i.e It might not have been loud enough if you like things REALLY loud. In that case the BTE can deliver more power with less FB as joesc has said. FB is really not an issue you should worry about when it comes to this level of hearing instrument as they handle it really well. BTE’s tend to be more reliable than ITC and less prone to wax blockage than ITC’s and can contain larger vents leading to more comfort with your own voice as the electronics are housed away from your ear canal. They do however make phone use slightly different in that the phone receiver needs to be agains the back of your ear, rather than in the more natural on the ear position we are all used to.

If you could find an audi that would allow you to try ITC and then BTE if not loud enough for you, then you have it made. Good luck in your search.

I was interested in you comment about not going with the power speaker - because I have one with custom moulds. The reason was that the Phonak software created a programme for the tulip dome which just didn’t sound very clear. Switching to the custom moulds the sound was much better. I’m presuming that it analysed my hearing profile, along with the feedback management settings, and created a programme hich would work without too much feedback, but at the loss of some clarity.
My audiogram is:
My audiogram:
125 50R 50L
250 50R 50L
500 55R 40L
1k 55R 40L
1k5 80R 75L
2k 80R 80L
3k 70R 75L
4k 70R 70L
6k 65R 65L
8k 65R 65L
In your experience, what would be the best speaker and domes for this?

gypsi, I am 100% sure you are a candidate for phonak audeo yes IX.
my audio is putting me on a trial with this aid, even she recomends me the standard reciever wit a small mold.
0250.Hz L-45 R-40
0500.Hz L-35 R-50
1000.Hz L-40 R-50
2000.Hz L-45 R-50
3000.Hz L-60 R-50
4000.Hz L-90 R-70
6000.Hz L-80 R-65
8000.Hz L-75 R-80<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p>