Trialed Phonak Audeo M-13 T Didn't Work Out

#1

and there could be several reasons why. I don’t consider the M13 T to be a “true” power aid though Phonak says its range is for someone with a “mild to profound” loss. Due to my hearing loss I pretty much need a power aid which Marvel-13 isn’t really set up for. I’m someone who feels one HA designed to meet all needs is some what of a crap shoot. Now I do think the Audeo M-13 could work well for someone with a mild to mid range loss, but not for someone with a severe to profound loss. Only good news was the incoming sound I received sounded normal and up to par with my old Widex HA’s. Where the Marvel failed badly was in background noise, where pretty much any program setting was a waste to try. I felt the HA’s some what function properly in autosense mode in quiet settings but since I obviously had it adjusted way up due to my hearing loss - it couldn’t handle noisy situations when set for “speech in noise”, “speech in loud noise” etc. HA’s struggled adjusting to back ground noise as it related to nearby speech from people sitting next to me to waiter asking what I wanted for dinner. Again I’m quite aware that my hearing loss does require a lot from a HA, but the M-13 T did not cut it. Being so small I also felt in someways the outer shell wouldn’t hold up long term. Maybe that was due to the “flimsy” battery holding clip that was (1) very difficult to open and (2) probably guaranteed to break during first year of use. I’m a disposable battery guy but if rechargeable batteries require less opening and closing of battery holder - then I’d go that route for less wear and tear on the Marvel. I also found the volume up/down button control on the Marvel to be way too small and difficult to locate. Maybe manual adjustments would of improved over time but I knew within ten days the aids were not working out. I also found it odd how you go from pushing a button for volume to pushing the same button for program setting. My Audi didn’t tell me you had to hold button down 4 seconds to manually bring up selected programs. But if you hold volume buttons down to long - the HA’s will completely turn off.

So I’m going to wait until the end of the year to trial the Evoke with power cell technology, with 13 battery. If Phonak comes out with a Power Audeo Marvel I might retry, but I had such a lousy experience with back ground noise I might also pass.

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#2

Please excuse my frankness. I think you may not be seeing the forest for the trees. You have a very challenging loss. My thoughts would be to focus on a HA with the basic power to deal with your loss, not on bells and whistles of the “latest and greatest” HA. Something like the battery should be the least of your concerns.

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#3

I believe most of my comments were centered around how poorly the Marvel M-13T performed for me and I also believe I mentioned my significant hearing loss. Excuse my frankness but can you read?

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#4

From reading different posts about these Phonak Audéo Marvel aids I too have thought about trying them. One member with borderline profound hearing loss pushed the sound recovery heavily to move his high loss high frequency sounds into lower frequency areas. He had great results doing this. These aids were undersized for his loss but we’re fine after using the sound recover feature.
For most of us with really bad hearing all we want is better speech recognition. These new Phonak aids as well as other new top of the line manufacturers of aids are really helping people with severe/profound hearing loss.
Pretty exciting to read all the posts from these members.

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#5

Yes it seems that using the Audeo M13T with the UP receivers at your loss is not a good choice, they would of been at saturation level for sure, just looking at your audiogram shows the best choice would have been the Bolero B SP.
Although I notice you didn’t say if you got any additional adjustments done to see if the Audeo’s could have been improved, what about the remote app instead of using the push buttons on the HA?

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#6

No you are mistaken Raudrive. The current Phonak Marvels are not for those who have a severe to profound hearing loss. Flat out the majority of reviews on Hearing Tracker support my findings, but make up your own story if you want. What’s interesting is that I found the Marvel to be very disappointing when using in background noise. And I’m not the only one that has experienced that poor performance. Clearly the Marvel is new technology but it didn’t handle loud background noise well at all. In fact I heard better in standard autosense mode than in “loud noise setting”. But to each his own. Flat out though the Marvel had the most difficult battery door I’ve ever opened and you better have some long fingernails to open it, because if you don’t in won’t open.

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#7

Well I did make adjustment through my iPhone and again the aids did not perform well at all in restaurant noise/general background noise. What I find extremely interesting about certain poster on HT is that many posters want to pump a hearing aid even if someone else finds it doesn’t meet his or her needs. Furthermore many of the “pumpers” here could care less what a HA costs, but would rather stand up for their certain brand as if it’ a fine Rolex Watch that just keep ticking. In any case I really like reading reviews of actual HA users, versus posters that are really HA vendors pushing their own specific HA brand or product. It does get old but you have to weed out the garbage posters from time to time.

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#8

What I meant was did you get professional help with the adjustments from your audiologist, not from the app! You can’t make the corrections that would have made a difference from the app!
A suggestion for you is to read the reviews and suggestions before trying any one particular hearing aid brand, this way you will have a basic understanding of what each is capable of, just remember that a hearing aid is just that,it cannot restore your hearing it is simply an aid.
Don’t worry just keep trying different HA and you’ll find the one that suits you in time.

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#9

There was no need to try an “improved” adjustment or to fine tune because the HA’s were so far off base. Not so much in quiet situations, though I felt I was not getting proper gain in any hearing environment/HA mode. I know quite a bit about HA’s and also know if you used Widex for 5, 10, 15 plus years it can be an adjustment testing a different hearing aid. Since you’ve (for good or bad) been wired to hear through Widex for many years and might not be able to make a successful switch to a different HA brand. With that said I’m in no way knocking Marvel and feel it could have real pluses for people with mild to mid level hearing level loss. But I see red flags when Phonak, Widex or who ever claims someone with a mild hearing loss and someone with a profound hearing loss can basically use the same hearing aid. I don’t buy into that at all simply because the range of a hearing aid could easily get maxed out and not perform in the manner it should trying to be all things to all hard of hearing folks.

Thanks for suggestions Tenkan but I’m in my early sixties and have been wearing HA’s for 32 years. So you’re some what preaching the the choir.

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#10

What receiver did you use?

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#11

Well I have to say that you don’t know much at all about HA, this is evident in your replies, to imply that you know a lot about HA just because you have been using them for 30 odd years is not a good way to go about getting the advice you so much need, lets look at the facts about the Audeo’s, they are pretty much suited for mild to profound hearing loss because both the amplifier and chip are more than capable of performing to this level, you see it’s not just the amp/chip in the HA that gives the required level of sound to your ears but it’s the receiver as well, so standard receivers are fitted for mild/moderate and medium for moderate/severe and Power for severe/profound and the UP receivers for your profound loss with a custom made shell, this is why its perfectly acceptable to say that the Audeo hearing aid is suitable for mild to profound loss.
Now you say there was no need to make any further adjustments because they were so far of base, say what? This is what fine tuning is all about, what you are supposed to do is tell your audiologist what you don’t like about them in certain situations and they would’ve made adjustments to that effect, if you think that a single programming is going to be perfect then your out of touch with what most people would consider as a given.
Honestly this forum is definitely here to help you, can’t see the point in running everything down plus all the advice given.

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#12

Hi Tenkan,

Not wanting to wade in here and upset anybody, including you, but I think there is a difference in power level between the Audeo Marvel and aids specially designed for severe/profound losses, like the Phonak Naida B and the Oticon Dynamo. Looking at the specs, the latter aids pretty much have 10db more gain and output at the top end and usually require a mould because of the power being driven through the aids, although the lower power versions of the Naida are available in a RIC configuration.

Yes, the Marvel can deliver up to profound loss, with a RIC receiver, but so can my ITC Virto B aids with a UP chip. Would I recommend it for a mainly severe/ profound loss alone ? - No. Because if I had mainly a profound loss, the sound I would imagine would be unsatisfactory - bluntly put - not loud enough.

Part of this confusion is the product literature. Phonak will produce datasheets saying that the fitting range will be up to 90db in lows and to 110db in the high frequencies, but the reality is - as I have found out with being fitted with CIC, MC (Mini Canal), ITC configurations, that whilst you can hear something, it is not with the right amount of intensity - or to put it simply - volume. An audiologist will look at my audiogram, and quite rightly, recommend a BTE, and I will sometimes moan and ask for a high power ITC, and they will shake their head disapprovingly! - Quite right I guess. I do actually have both, and concede that the sound from the BTE is best in terms of quality and loudness, but not necessarily audibility.

A crude comparison is with a car. A car with a 1.6 engine will do 120 miles an hour, but a car with a 2 litre engine with do it even more comfortably, and with a 3 litre Audi quattro - probably in 3rd gear!

So, not wanting to wade into an argument. The Audeo Marvel range is really mild to severe, but will reach some of those frequency losses in the profound area, but they can’t be recommended for a very severe, profound loss.

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#13

@tenkan I have severe bil profound loss, and have Phonak Bolero SP 70. I wouldn’t recommend Bolero to anyone, Ive had them for 2 yrs and haven’t worn them now for 10 weeks because when I do I’m walking around with my head inside a pillow and can’t hear a bloody thing. I hear better without them, with the little residual I have, than I do with them. Audiologists have tried and tried to get a good fit sadly the can’t get rid of the “muffled” effect.

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#14

glucas, I did state the Audeo wasn’t a good solution for the op as it would be at saturation level,at no time have I suggested the Audeo is suitable for the op. I suggested the Bolero SP as a aternative, fit with a earhook/dampers would be a better option, but any SP or UP hearing aid should be tried from any manufacturer untill he finds the “one” that works for him.
Quite possibly he may even have to go down the Cochlear implant track ?

Deaf_piper I’m sorry to hear you have been unable to find the “sweet spot” with your Bolero SP but like the op , you just need to keep trying to find the “one” that works for you, as looking at your audiogram it must be quite difficult at times without wearing any hearing aids.

Looks like we need some pros to step in with some advice on this thread.

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#15

No worries tenkan. I wrote the post as much to get it out there for newbies as much as anything, not that you are, or the OP. Saturation is the right word for it, or on the cusp of the loss. I am not even sure a Bolero SP would fit that to be honest. But agreed, it’s a confusing area, which is why we need the input from pros. I have to admit that the goalposts have changed slightly, as I thought that RIC configurations never used to be recommended for severe low frequency loss, but now, they can go from mild to severe with the UP receiver. But still. the superpower Nadia B takes a 675 battery, and that’s not something that will be minituarized overnight.

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#16

You cannot say the Marvels don’t fit severe losses. Depending on how profound one is, you may be pushing it. But you are throwing down blanket statements for all HA wearers about this HA. I have severe profound loss, and I’ve never heard better in my life thanks to these hearing aids. You mean to say that your M13T, programmed by X audiologist, doesn’t fit YOUR severe profound loss, which trends to be closer to profound than severe nearly across the board, especially around speech. One crucial thing here is that a hearing aid is only as good as it is programmed. It may or may not be a factor for you, but I wouldn’t say it’s the biggest issue — you require a lot of power. You have had a rare experience with the Marvels. I’m sorry. Your audiogram however points in the direction of a true power aid or CI, depending on WRS.

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#17

My own hearing loss is pretty profound, and I’ve found significant help with the Audeo B-Direct for size 13 battery and now the Marvel-13. In fact, to my amazement, the sound quality of these two models is IDENTICAL as far as I can detect (amplification, clarity) except for use in noisy places.

I find that the Marvel-13 outperforms my older B-Direct aids by a noticeable (but not HUGE) degree in noisy places. Perhaps the double mics help, but maybe also the software has advanced to help me focus on speech.

I mainly use the Marvel-13s now, but wear the older B-Direct aids when having my hair done (risk of moisture). I LOVE LOVE LOVE the direct streaming of the Marvels to BOTH ears, hands-free.

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#18

Hey 1Bluejay!
I recall your saying that you don’t stream music with the Marvels. Have you tried streaming music? I have a subscription to IDAGIO which streams stereo in CD quality and the fidelity is superb. I no longer bother to use any of my headphones as my Marvel M90-R’s are better!

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#19

^^^^ Currently I subscribe to Qobuz, as it lets me literally play music all day, selected by artist, song, genre - all sorts of criteria! Right now, I’m streaming Jethro Tull - randy ol’ Aqualung. It sounds GREAT in my Marvels played on a MacBook Pro.

For most other home music uses (exercising, cooking) I definitely prefer to crank up the Vivid speakers and get better sound quality. :wink:

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#20

Yes, and HOW I know from experience. Before my hearing loss caught up with me I used to spend a good bit of time with an audiophile grade sound system and my CD collection. With my Marvels I am once again able to hear the sweet shimmer of an orchestral violin section. I thought that sound was lost forever.

I play my 7’ 5" concert grand piano several hours every day and I can once again hear the highest octave all the way to the highest C. For quite a few years when I tried to play the highest octave all I heard was the thunk of the key hitting the key bed. I was missing so much because of my hearing loss. My Marvels have given me back my musical life!

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