Too much compression with Widex Evoke

Hearing Aids
#1

I have Widex Evoke. No matter what my audiologist does he cannot stop the compression from kicking in when triggered by routine occurrences such as an elevator door closing, somebody talking, or even my clicking and clicking on my keyboard. It is amazingly distracting because I always hear the ambient sound in the room pumping up and down and I am loosing much needed high end every time the compression kicks in. Not even Widex audiologists have been able to resolve this issue. It’s crazy and I can hear it so clearly when it happens.

Is anybody having this problem?

BTW, this is my third pair of Widex Evokes because the first two had to be returned due to clicking in one ear or the other when driving in my car and hitting bumps.

NOT a good experience with Widex… except they sound SO GOOD when they are not being terrible.

Ugh!..

#2

There is a setting that clamps sounds prematurely, like noise of opening newspaper etc and I always have it switched off. I am not sure of the technical term but ensure your dispenser speaks to technical support again. Hope you have sorted the noise caused going over bumps. I found the IP model worked for me as the door style is different. Do persist, I am sure the issue can be sorted & they are so worth it.

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#3

I had that EXACT issue with my Widex. I don’t know what the setting is, but there is a setting to calm down that excessive compression, and make it release quicker. Sorry I don’t know the terminology, but I know it is there.

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#4

On the Oticon OPN, that feature is called Transient Noise Management. It basically allows sudden loud sounds to be compressed to help make it more comfortable to the user, at the expense of cutting out short-lived spiked sound that you may want to hear (like the popping sound of the tennis racket hitting the ball for instance).

Anyway, I don’t know if this term is used on the Widex Evoke or not, but maybe look for this feature name or something called Loud Noise Management or something like that.

#5

I had the same issue while on Evoke trial and the Audi told me it is how it works and should not be negative issue!.
I purchased the OPN S1 and found that with the new firmware (8.0) the aids are giving much more clearer sounds. During my initial trial (5 months ago) this transition was sharp and I can noticed it. Now with the updated firmware it’s more natural.

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#6

Thanks All. My audi has adjusted the settings mentioned and there has been some success but the issue is still present. Last time we adjusted them we had widex on the call.

I have a lot of confidence in my audi and am wondering if it is just the nature of the widex sound. I read that they prescribe to a very low threshold compression scheme. It doesn’t help that I am a musician.

Widex, if you’re out there…help please. It still seams crazy to me that what I hear is normal.

The clicking issue was resolved when widex sent a 3rd pair that was then not defective.

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#7

Well I’ve finally found someone that seems to “share” my exact experience with the Evoke. I did a very quick test of the Widex Evokes last year, while my old hearing aids were being worked on. It was actually unscheduled with Audi just hooking up new Evokes - to my older custom molds. A quick test was done, general speaking/receiving adjustment and sent on the way.

Well first experience was I was hearing way, way better but the other problem was I was hearing everything (as you say in compression mode). My car was rattling and squeaking and making noises I’ve never head. Loud noises. I eventually had to turn my HA’s off. When I got home I had to keep telling my wife to lower her voice because it seemed she was shouting. Now that’s actually a good sign since it means I’m hearing better, but for some reason it felt the the Evokes were just out of control while making many things startling loud or just uncomfortable to wear - even with my serious hearing loss. The hvac system sounded extremely loud, while other noises from kitchen were distracting. The kicker though was when I took the new Evokes with my older receiver/molds to a noisy restaurant with noise, music, lot of eating/talking customers, etc. Well I almost went nuts. Everything was coming in extremely loud even as I attempted to turn hearing aids down. Unfortunately I really didn’t have the proper manual to read how they worked, nor have proper back up programs (programed in) to see if aids could adjust to different settings. Yea I could manually adjust volume - but it still was like I was at a rock concert sitting a few feet away from a front row speaker.

But did they have power and gain - OH Yea but they also amplified all noises so loud I probably would of had a nervous breakdown if I kept wearing them. I’m not exactly sold on rechargeable for various reasons so after a few days I returned the tested Evokes thinking WIdex would come out with a Evoke with throw away hearing aids. But such has not been the case and I’d rather try to find a HA that uses a 675 battery or possibly size 13 throwaway, then go the Evoke rechargeable route. Yea widex provides a clear/good sounding HA when they are on - but for the short time I tested the Evokes - they were some what of a wild beast that I’m not sure could be tamed.

#8

Can you summarise exactly what you are finding difficult since the changes? I found that some background/peripheral sound was too compressed for me. We changed the programme changing speed to fast (medium is standard) and I went one step towards comfort (audibility/comfort bar). This subtly adapts frequencies and gave me a little more body. It’s a good one to experiment with as you can copy your universal and do a programme 2 with one step towards comfort, programme 3 with one step towards audibility etc and gives you a mellow way to try it out. There are so many ways to adapt the Evokes to user preference. My son changed his speed to fast & that was it, my Dad was automatically set to fast & added a bit more compression. It’s so unique to each of us and they have the settings to tailor that, it may just take a bit of trial and error to find what helps for you.

#9

The Evokes are set up using calculations measured by the software with the custom mould in the ear, so must be set up correctly with the settings redone with the moulds in the ear every time a mould is changed. Changing to different moulds will make the frequencies distort so will then not be correct for your hearing. The only way to trial them correctly is with the moulds connected, aids being worn, sensogram fitting, the vent size selected and feedback calibration performed. All these steps will create a very accurate set up. Unfortunately sometimes dispensers take short cuts.

#10

Yes it probably was a mistake to do a quick Evoke HA’s connect with existing old molds for a short trial test. On one had I could tell the Evokes had power that my previous aids, but the incoming sound distortion in many “settings” was very uncomfortable. Live and learn,

#11

A little education for those who want to know how to refer to compression.

Knee point: Knee point refers to the point where compression kicks in. Sound above the knee is being reduced by a specific ratio, so the climb to peak output is no longer going straight up, therefore it looks like a bent leg, because the output is being reduced by a specific ratio, hence “Knee Point.” A knee point that is too low means that in a noisy restaurant, or driving down the road at interstate speeds, the aid is always in compression. This is why we hear complaints of:" I can hear everything in the restaurant except the people at my table." Compression is “Compressing” the smaller sounds of speech out of the output signal.

Compression Ratio: The ratios can range from 1.1:1 to 3.0:1. What this means is that at say 2.5:1 compression ratio, above the knee point, it takes 2.5 db into the hearing aid to get on into your ear. Too high a compression ratio does a number of things, most are negative to the user’s experience. It distorts the signal, it makes everything sound sort of “Donald Ducky.” It compresses out the smaller sounds of speech needed for clear understanding, and it induces a much higher “Noise Floor” (the amount of noise present in the aid in perfect quiet)

Attack time: Attack time is measured in milliseconds, and refers to the time it takes the hearing aid to begin to reduce sounds above the knee point by the pre-determined ratio, in other words when compression kicks in.

Release Time: Release time is the amount of time, also measured in milliseconds, that it takes the aid to back out of the compression state after the offending noise is no longer present in the environment. Attack and release times that are too fast give the user a feeling of “pumping” as the noise level of an environment rises and falls, or transient noises occur, like slamming doors, or someone laughing loudly.

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#12

If you are talking about loud, normal, quiet, gains and amplitude compression (not noise suppression) then you may want to ask about getting the prescription formula to DSL v5 and try that. It typically has a lot less compression than the proprietary and NAL formulas.

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#13

Thank you. That sounds interesting. So would I need a prescription to then have Widex allow me to use the formula for the DSL v2? Could that stop what I am perceiving to be the compression always attacking and releasing?

Also, has anybody had this problem with Widex Evoke and actually had it resolved and are now happy with them?

#14

Also try the NAL-NL2 matching rule. I have it in my Evoke. I love !

#15

There are time constants associated with the attack and release times of the compression. Some software allows you to adjust those time constants, but I would not have a clue how one would adjust them. There will be default time constants applied when the DSL v5 formula is selected for use and then set up with REM. My thoughts would be to try it and see if you like it or not. Nobody writes a prescription, the fitter just selects the formula for the gains in the software, which is sometimes called a prescription, or target gain. But, when switching, REM needs to be done again to ensure you are reaching the target as best you can.

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#16

Yes I have sorted my compression issues with Widex to what works for me & now have excellent hearing that I love. Widex uses the sensogram and it’s own fitting algorithm, any significant hearing issues I have had were caused by using R.E.M. or the incorrect algorithm.

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#17

Hi Eric.cobb,
Thanks for the summary!
I am in the dark about the instrument I use everyday and I would love to understand a bit more on how my hearing aids are fitted, can you please suggest some reading material for the curious?
Thanks

#18

This is a useful primer on compression: The Compression Handbook

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#19

@brec thank you for the link !

#20

I may have recently figured something out. I was having similar compression issues, even though the impulse softener and AGCO was turned off. Try using the widex app, making a custom program, and using one of Widex’s defaults for music, then alter the volume as you see fit. I figured this out just recently and I’ll test it out with live music tomorrow.
I speculate that the fitting rationale is the problem. For some reason, widex makes NAL-NL2 extremely quiet and compressed. Itll make you very sensitive to the release time. But if you set up a music program, it will set up widex fitting rationale + high frequency boost. This will give more gain to loud sounds. Hopefully I remember to repost after I try it out tomorrow.