The Great Gun Debate


#66

Actually I read all of his posts. He said:
“How can anyone be arrogant enough to tell someone else how many rounds they are allowed to protect themselves with? That goes far beyond the very definition of hubris.”
I was trying to point out that the protection excuse does not make sense unless you are carrying the weapon concerned 24/7. Going to the gun safe only when being attacked does not make sense and carrying a semi-automatic weapon all day is highly impractical. I was not replying to his comment about carrying a handgun.

Australia is a wonderful place. We have had no school shootings for as long as I remember. My child does not have to grow up in fear when going to school. I have never had to look at a gun close up and being threatened by one is rare. We also think of guns as tools - for warfare, policing, on farms but not in my home. I worked in an accident & emergency department in my younger years and never saw a gunshot wound come in. I did see one attempted suicide by gun on the wards and that was devastating for all concerned.

Your younger generation is going to keep asking the questions they are asking until their generation takes over. They are going to make changes and many of them will be for the better. For any country to just stay the same and keep repeating the same mistakes is to stagnate. Of course your amendments can change. Of course gun restrictions are possible. It just takes enough people to want to do that. To say they are not willing to see things stay as they are. There are lots of things that can be done and need to be done but they won’t happen until your nation bands together to make them happen. I sincerely hope that your nation does do everything it can to start to address this issue of innocent young people being massacred in schools. The world is watching.


#67

Meanwhile, granny just mistook a B for an E on the wall and they made her surrender her car keys.


#68

On a scale from 1-5, how much has your opinion been changed by this thread? (1 = no change, 5 = complete change in thinking)

  • 1
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  • 5

0 voters


#69

abram,
Although the thread hasn’t changed my way of thinking, it’s still interesting to see how other people view the problem. I would also like to see how the pro side thinks we should solve the problem at hand.


#70

The 2nd Amendment was ratified in 1791. It in no way has the same significant meaning today, 227 years later. We don’t need an armed private Militia, we have police departments everywhere where.

You want to have a handgun for personal protection, OK. You want a rifle to hunt with, OK. No one needs to own military weapons. Who are you expecting to come after you that you need an AR 15 and thousands of rounds of ammo for protection?

You want to shoot these military weapons for fun, then let them setup ranges where you can rent and shoot anything you want.

Where do gun nuts draw the line? Would they be good with me walking around their neighborhood with a belt full of M67 Grenades?

These high school kids are a ray of hope to me. It’s my hope they grow stronger and stay persistent. Then in a year or 2 when they reach voting age, they vote out enough NRA owned politicians to get sensible gun laws enacted.


#71

Mikej, it may start sooner than you think. 4 million kids turn 18 before the 2018 election. How can their parents and other voting age family members go against them?


#72

It gave me insight into how at least some of the “pro-gun” side think. I also greatly appreciated the views of people from other countries. I do wonder if it hasn’t hurt us some as a forum.


#73

I suspect the discussion simply reinforced the stereotypes of what each side probably already thought of the other. We’ve all heard these sentiments expressed by both sides. It’s then a matter of whether we side with one side or the other.
I don’t think the discussion would hurt the forum at all.
People of other countries (further away from Canada anyway) may not have fully grasped the passion of either side of the discussion. Those people (and Canadians) may continue to think what they think of this anomalous country among the rest of the world regarding this topic.


#75

I don’t think changing anyone’s mind is the aim. It is more about being able to listen to each other and find out how others think. I always enjoy a good debate.

Of course the issues of gun deaths and moreover violence in general are bigger than one set of laws and no one can solve them with only laws. It will take more fundamental changes in many areas - the way we all raise our children to the mental health care systems and lots of other factors. I have seen with my own daughter the changing priorities of the next generation and I think they will change the world for the better.


#76

There is a lengthy interesting read on wikipedia:

Even here in Canada where we have different gun laws, incidents do happen. There was a recent one in New Brunswick where the RCMP were found to have inadequate training and equipment. From this armchair, I question if trained officers are not adequately prepared - how in the world can your average Joe be prepared?

I have no desire to own a gun and have only encountered 1 situation in my life where I made the decision to be armed for protection. We were staying overnight with friends in a rural area and the police had come by to issue a warning, something that would not happen in a city. We were told that a certain individual known to the people we were visiting was experiencing a psychotic break and had announced he was armed and coming after one of their family members that lived elsewhere. The individual knew the surrounding backwoods for miles like the back of his hand. There were 2 police cruisers on duty that night covering some 50 - 60 square miles. A rifle and shotgun came out of the gun cabinet, were loaded and 3 at a time took turns doing guard duty for a very, very long night. One watching the front door, one the back and a third at the telephone. I’d really rather not be put in that situation again.

I understand the desire to arm oneself when there is a specific imminent threat. I do not understand the desire to arm oneself because something might happen. IMHO, the more people that are armed, the more likely that an imminent threat will occur.


#77

I, guess you don’t buy Health or Auto Insurance because Something Might Happen…


#78

One of my favorite sayings is: “Don’t confuse me with facts. My mind’s made up.” I think it applies to both sides of the gun argument.


#79

Nope. We have a universal health care system that works reasonably well. It ain’t perfect but good enough that I don’t have to worry about losing my house if I need to be hospitalized.

Auto insurance that’s a mixed bag. Liability is mandatory. Ins. Co. says my wheels are too old for collision and comprehensive. OTOH I have a couple of antique campers that are insured for fire and theft, the latter is more likely. Tow and go is perceived as a victimless crime.


#80

I have a life vest like Marty has worn in 1955 below each seat in every car because Something Might Happen.
We have a bunker beneath the basement of our house because Something Might Happen.
In the garage we keep the Leopard 2 clean because Something Might Happen.


#81

Well, I for one, am glad to see your well prepared.You must live in a terrible place, too keep your little cat fed well…:smirk_cat:


#82

It does seem we all have blinders and our opinion trumps data. I am surprised a bit. I thought this group might be more open minded. I guess none of us are on emotional issues like this.

I thought the UK claim of an idyllic peace was touching until I recalled that Northern Ireland is still part of the UK. I know it was a few years ago but it is an example of how weapons can infiltrate a country with issues and strong gun laws.

I suggest we shut this thread down. Cogent views seem to have run the course and it starting to get a bit silly.


#83

This is my little cat Leopard II


#84

My… You must have a Big Garage!


#85

It’s not idyllic peace. There are tensions between different communities who live in close proximity to each other. What you’ll find here is that incidents whether they be terrorism, mental health or criminally motivated don’t tend to escalate on the basis of fire-power. Homicide by firearm is vanishingly rare and our Police are trained to use non-lethal methods of control to de-escalate situations.

There is still some knife crime and there are occasional crimewaves like the scooter gangs snatching mobile phones in London, however the risks of ever being involved in a gun related incident are tiny.

As to the overall legality, if you still want to own guns you can, as long as you keep them in an approved cabinet or at a gun club. You also need to hold a licence and pass a background check. You also have to allow your storage facility to be checked by the Police when you apply and at subsequent intervals. Farmers are allowed guns to deal with vermin under the same conditions as above - but that’s a function of their job. Other than that, I can’t see a good reason to own one

Handguns are banned, following the Dunblane and Hungerford massacres, where disaffected and deranged individuals went on a shooting spree and in one case killed a class of primary school kids and their teacher.

You can’t really conflate the role of the IRA/UDA with the general population - that was a political argument over the occupation of Northern Ireland - funding for arms (which was largely sourced in the USA for the republicans) and delivery which occurred through several shady regimes like Gadaffi’s Libya - sits well outside of the domestic use of firearms by the general public. If you want to look at somewhere they seem to have bought the living without weapons thing, then consider most of the Eu countries with land borders to more unstable neighbours - Greece for example is financially poor and close to the middle east, yet there’s no need to have guns there.

I appreciate in the US, you might not want to challenge your gun ownership paradigm; it’s only around fifty or so years ago that you acknowledged the equal rights of all your Black citizens, so perhaps a maturity in the thinking behind your legislature will eventually develop to change what is currently de-riguer.


#86

Average rating on my poll is 1.08. Congratulations, at least one person has changed their mind by some factor.