So what phone do you have? Does anyone have an Android phone that works well with the Edge AI?
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Hmmm Iām also trying to get the Phonak Audeo Spheres on trail, because a new phone with the Oticons will cost me more then the Phonak Audeo Spheres. I was quite hesitant at first to these Phonaks, because some were talking on very bad battery life, but what Iāve read here on this forum so far makes me very positive.
Iāll let you all knowā¦ I hope my audi will trail them.
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I have the Samsung S22 Plus. Connects with everything even a $20 cheap pair of over the ears headphone. Starkey loses connection randomly or it takes me 15 minutes to pair and pair again to connect only to lose connection later.
I think I am going to be happier with Phonak which was the road I was originally on and switched due to this particular audiologist.
I have a Pixel 6a that I have no problems with.
I walked 60ft out the front door across the street and I still had the signal. It started to breakup.
I walked across the street back to my house which is 50 ft and I had the signal.
I have a large front window with a Bahama shutter on it at an angle.
I have a full glass storm door.
I walk in the park with the phone in my front left pocket, which I measured to be 3 ft to my hearing aids.
I cannot do BLE with my phone. I can only do ASHA.
Phone was on my chair in the front room.
Maybe the stars were aligned.
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Starkeyās compatibility list is at https://www.starkey.com/compatibility#content4-.
The BT consortium needs to come up with better nomenclature:
BT - classic bluetooth, drains batteries fast when compared to ā¦
BT LE - low energy - less battery drain, supports but is not sufficient for ASHA (Android Streaming for Hearing Aids)
BT LE Audio - thatās the new standard that allows connecting via Auracast, hands-free use of Android phones, handling phone calls via tapping the HA, etc.
Apple does BT LE, but not BT LE Audio. Phonak apparently does BT.
I have a Pixel 8 which seems OK. Couple of things which seem to be āfeaturesā of Starkeyās implementation. Answering or stopping a phone call using the HA buttons seems to be an IPhone only thing. Using a double tap to stop/start a stream is only for the TV adapter not a phone.
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So limited hands free phoning. What a shame. For me to switch to the Edge Iād have to ditch a perfectly good phone, shell out hundreds on a Pixel for a worse implementation of hands free than I have on the Phonak aids Iām replacing. No thanks Starkey.
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Biggest thing with the BT problems is not exactly the nomenclatureā¦ but the implementation by manufacturersā¦
TL;DR: BT LE Audio and the support for Hearing Aids will get better over time. if you need it, pick an approved combo (HAās and Phone) or stick with Mfi HAās for Apple and Phonak(or if you like: an ASHA compatible HA) for Android users.
A deep dive in Bluetooth:
With Bluetooth you have the Hardware specification. This describes what the chipset can do, ie: use Bluetooth, or use Bluetooth LE and/or use certain compression algorithms with this hardware (use the hardware to compress/uncompress data, to offload the other chips)
Bluetooth is Bluetooth Classic(Bluetooth Spec 1 to 5.4 right now) - full feature set, full bandwidth and power hungry.
This is used for everything nowadays, controlling, streaming audio, streaming video, streaming data etc.
Bluetooth LE (Low Energy)(incorporated since Bluetooth Spec 4) has lower battery drain, but also a sloppy connection (i.e., not checking every x ms if the other party is there, but only talking to each other if necessary)
This is used for controlling things (turn on/of, change volume, pass me the current location, etc)
BT LE Audio is the specification of a set of functions, and an algorithm (LC3) that can be used over Bluetooth LE and can be used to stream audio with less bandwidth, less lag and less power, while the audio stream is (uncompressed) higher quality, so better audio while using less energy and bandwidth.
BT LE Audio can be used from Bluetooth Spec 5.2, but that only states the Hardware (chip) layer.
On top of that you also need the software support for it, so the manufacturer of the phone needs to enable these options for the end-user. Thatās where a lot of these things go wrongā¦
Auracast is an extra feature that is enabled trough the LE Audio & LC3: broadcast audio.
Normally a BT connection is point-to-point, so only one device connecting to one other device.
With LE Audio & LC3 itās possible to create a multipoint connection (or even a 1-n connection); you can broadcast audio ad anyone that subscribes will hear it. (This can be public(Theater/Church/Airport/Cinema) or private(Your TV/Stereo) broadcasts)
With an auracast stream your HAās or Headphones connect directly with the broadcaster and pickup the sound. To select what broadcaster or what channel (or what password to use for a private channel) an āassistantā is needed. This can be a smart battery-case, such as some JBL cases or your phone (if the phone supports Auracast and the Auracast Assistant role).
Profiles:
For devices to know what they can do and how to talk to each other, there are certain āBluetooth Profilesā
Some of these are:
HSP - Headset Profile
A2DP - Advanced Audio Distribution Profile
HAP - Hearing Aid Profile
HAS - Hearing Aid Services
The phonak HAās need āfull bluetoothā with HSP and A2DP profile to stream audio and make calls. For their MyPhonak App they use BT LE.
The HSP & A2DP profiles exists for a long time and are widely adopted by phones and headsets/earphones, so that almost always works.
Starkey, Oticon and others only use BT LE functionality, so if itās usable then depends on if the Phone manufacturer has used a compatible chip, that has BT LE and LC3 on board, did they implement the LC3 audiostream functions in their firmware? (the layer between the chip and the OS(Android). Did they add all necessary Profiles? HAP profile, Streaming profiles and did they add entries to the audio-mixer device? (Sometimes it all somewhat works, but the doānt add the correct routings to the audiomixer in android and thus there is no audio, or very loud audio, or imbalanced audioā¦
The problem we see now is that a phone can use the correct Bluetooth Specification (5.3 or 5.4), so you assume it could use BT LE Audioā¦
Hmm not so, because there are some chip-makers that donāt incorporate the LC3 spec (for now; if it gets more traction, theyāll create new chips that also have that).
Also, if youāve verified that Yes, the phone is using BT 5.3 of 5.4 and has BT LE and the LC3 spec, on chip, it can still be that the phone manufacturer didnāt include the instruction layer between the chip and the OS, so the OS canāt use LC3.
This could be fixed with a Firmware update and this is also the case with some of the newer hearing aids that are said to get the āAuracastā of āLE Audioā features in a Firmware update.
If all this works, then the OS (Android) can communicate with the chip and use LC3, but if the specific Profiles and/or Auracast Assistent features are not present, enabled or the settings are not correct, you can still not use it.
It will probably take a couple of phone iterations/years to have broader support and work better.
Until that time, take a good look at compatibility-charts and trial your devices, so you know what you get.
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Although itās not the solution weāre hoping for, Iām trying to find a solution in the form of a ring that has Bluetooth and a button for play and answering calls. But Iād have to see how feasible it is first. The ring seems like a small and practical remote control.
Can you try to switch between multiple devices (phone, tablet, etc)? I find it cumbersome because you must disconnect it before connecting or else youād need to do the pairing again.
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My hearing aids are connected only to my phone.
My phone will connect to my car, Honda CRV 2021.
When I get out of the car the aids are connected to the phone.
All you should have to do is disconnect the aids from one device at a time. They will still be paired.
Then when you are finished with one device disconnect and reconnect to which ever device you choose to use.
Thatās the nature of Bluetooth.
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I didnāt enjoy music with domes. However my hearing is severe enough now that domes arenāt an option. Custom made receivers are more comfortable and deliver better quality sound when it comes to music, especially when streaming.
Iām lucky enough that my audiologist also works with a lot of hearing abled musicians making custom receivers for them. Sometimes the sound quality is only as good as the audiologist who fits you.
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Iām very interested in your comparisons. Can I ask whether your provider performed REM on any of your fittings. The comparison would be a lot more meaningful if they had, especially if you were just fit with Starkeyās proprietary fitting formula (estat) which provieds notably less gain than the widely used NAL-NL2 formula, which could be why speech clarity was inferior.
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With Phonak it doesnāt have to be disconnected manually, it happens all automatically.
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I think the Pixel is key. Iām going to keep the Starkey Edge AI 24 and maybe in the near future get a Pixel phone.
I will pass on my experience. I had the Intent for about 6 months and think they are very good HAs. My only issue is in loud environments. Even though I have had Oticon for 15 years, I am very sensitive to noise and have never completely adapted to the open concept. With that in mind, for the last month I have trialed the Stareky Edge AI. I would say they are very good. I tried the Genesis last year and find the Edge AI resolved some of their problems. All tuned using REM and adjustments afterwards (although I question the experience of the REM on the Starkey devices). As far as general hearing, I would have to give a slight nod to the Intent. Just better sound, although this might be because I am more use to the Intent. For understanding speech in a loud environment, very hard to say. The Intent is good if you can tolerate the background noise and I can understand speech fairly well. The Edge is also good most of the time, but it is a little unpredictable. I never know exactly how it will respond. Also, sometimes going into the Edge Plus mode really cuts down on background noise and sometimes not so much. The bottom line is since I already have the Intent, I will probably return the Starkey. Because I am a techie, if I did not have the Intent, I would probably keep the Edge AI and play with the setting. Be glad to provide additional information. It is extremely hard to provide objective verse subjective evaluations.
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Phonak automatically chooses the device by itself without your intervention?
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You have to pair it, but after that, it requires less intervention than Starkey. Thatās the advantage of regular Bluetooth compared to ASHA.
It pairs to two devices if I remember correctly.
You have to choose which device you want to use.
Disconnect the aids are turn off Bluetooth.
I only have it paired to my phone.
I donāt think it can pair to more than one device, so Phonak does have that over it.
You still can connect to only one at a time and stream or whatever from only one at a time.
Please correct me if Iām wrong.
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I have to try to be sure, but I understand two devices at a time ar possible (phone and another device)
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