Speech recognition

Tevc32: I sympathize with your vent, and if its any comfort, I can’t understand my grandchildren either.

My research indicates (and at least one audi agrees) that all the new and supposedly sophisticated speech recognition algorithms help folks with moderate loss but aren’t much help for folks with moderate-severe or severe (or, obviously, profound) loss… particularly if they have poor discrimination too. I think pretty much the same is true of supposedly sophisticated directionality algorithms and capabilities.

Also, while this is of course anecdotal, I’ve found that my tests at about the same time by different audis produce similar loss curves but quite different discrimination scores. (I would will be alert for ant audi’s explanation or comment on this.)

I’m currently trying Phonak Audeo S Smart RITEs and recently trialed Oticon Agil Pro RITEs. My conclusion is that neither are that much better than my old Oticon Syncro BTEs, and both Audeo and Agil directionality and speech recognition advertisements are borderline BS (i.e., same category as weight-loss pill ads).

Hz) L(dB) R(dB)
250 40 50
500 55 65
1K 55 60
2K 60 60
4K 70 70
8K 90 100
L: 88% SD@80dB
R: 64% SD@85dB
L&R stapedectomy <!-- / message -->

Hi Folks

I guess I’m kinda lucky in that respect, given the severity of my loss, I have good speech recognition, at least I think I do? I have never actually been tested for this, its not something that’s done much here in the UK… The reason might be that I have always been aided since my initial loss 20 years back, thereby my brain never lost its ability to recognize speech? I read a few items on speech recognition over the years and if my memory serves me correctly, the main thrux of the matter was your brain loses its ability to recognize some speech if you go unaided for a long period of time, apparently this cannot be undone and hence some speech becomes distorted? Maybe one of the Pro’s can give us their take on this?

None of my Audiograms look the same, sometimes the variation can be 20db or more, I have yet to get 2 the same! My hearing can fluctuate quite wildly, this is usually dictated by my Tinnitus and when this is bad then my hearing goes way down!

Cheers Kev.

How do you get the stem cells onto the basilar membrane in the ‘right’ place?

How do you introduce them without perilymph fistula?

How do you re-establish cochlear neural function after system atrophy?

All in an electro-osmotically balanced delicate organ the size of a pea…hmmm.

I see you are a tadge skeptical Steve… I wonder why LOL :smiley:

I have say, I believe in the future that “Stem Cells” might be the answer to certain losses, when that will happen, anyone can only guess! It would be nice to think before I depart this mortal coil that perhaps it would be in my lifetime, but as I’m 54… I will most likely miss the boat? To be able to hear silence again and not this horrendous tinnitus, would be a blessing and maybe just to sit for a while and listen to some Folk or Blues would be blissful… Tis but a pipe-dream for the moment, but its nice to dream!

Cheers Kev:D

What I’ve seen on stem cell use have been temporary relief from the ailments they are meant to treat or cure. Several years ago they were implanting stem cells into the Brains of Dementia and Alzheimers patients and they only got several months to years improvement before they began to lose the effects of the stem cells. So I have to agree that I doubt I will see a stem cell cure for hearing loss in my lifetime.
Scott

I also think Deaf 123 is hoping for a cure for his hearing loss though biological means rather than a surgical one and he is shopping his belief in stem cell cures all over the Forum. In the time it will take to perfect the stem cell treatment, who knows what advancement in CI or other treatments will come down the pike?

Read my blog, I have collected lots of information that you overlooked.

Many researchers agree that it could easily be a decade or more before this could apply to humans. The one story I found about a little girl that it helped, the link was broken.

For starters, check here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_jqPbTc0Ug

I would love to read more on this and you are correct, I won’t believe it until I have some consistent, repeatable scientific proof.

I believe it, but I am still waiting myself for more pioneers to go ahead so I know what to expect. I estimate 2-4 years before I get stem cells.

I also have all sorts of questions like what happens when it’s progressive SNHL? Do you get the procedure over and over again? What’s the cost? Would insurance pay for it? What’s the success/failure rate?

If your loss is progressive, stem cells may still be worthwhile since the cost is about 25% of bilateral CIs and stem cells are far better. I would keep getting stem cells till they come out with a genetic cure for any gene based HL. Two CIs can cost over $100k while stem cells costs around $30k. Insurance sometimes pays for one CI but the real cost is losing your residual hearing, the risk of invasive head surgery and missing out on stem cells in the implanted ear. I am saving both ears. With todays stem cells, it’s about 50-50 for getting a noticeable improvement. But if you do improve, the advantages are numerous over CI and besides, most people have far too much hearing for CI.

Chloe had 600m stem cells administered by IV, 100m at a time and the stem cells travel thruout the body, a small amount migrating into your cochlea and then differentiating into hair cells. A direct transtympanic(eardrum) injection is considered too risky at this time and not recommended. Just inject them by IV and let them find their way.

You can wait for me and others to get stem cells, your chance will come whenever you are ready, be it next year or in a decade. :cool:

I suggest you check out my blog, I have explained everything. :smiley:

Sorry, you seem to be confusing your congenital deafness with an atrophied sensorineural system. Deafness through birth-defect ‘might’ be treatable in this way. How do you ‘instruct’ the stem-cells to create replacements for the damaged hair cells, if you can’t place them in situ AND the damaged structures are still on the basilar membrane?

As for the placement, you would need to get way beyond the tympanic membrane - you would need to access the bony labyrinth without spilling perilymph everywhere and destroying the vestibular system.

Pumping them into your bloodstream is only going to make them attach to the nearest organ. Isn’t it?

All the stem cell centers treating any disease/disorder are placing the stem cells into the bloodstream. The cells travel everywhere so of course a small number out of 600m end up in the “right” place anyway then they get to work repairing the damage. The stem cells “become” whatever cells the surrounding cells happen to be. In my case, the stem cells would end in my cochlea and the signal would be for those stem cells to become hair cells. This has been proven in numerous animal studies and in dozens of humans. I would suggest you check my blog, nearly all your answers are there.

So the stem cells become ‘dead’ hair cells with no link to the brain. How does the stem cell actually get into this bath of saline fluid? Does it pass through the bone in the wall, does it enter via the calcified or atrophied capillaries or does it pass through the walls of other cells via osmosis to the cavity inside? (apart from the particles being too large)

Unless you have invented a ‘star-trek’ kind of transporter, it seems you have a problem.

Using this site to drive traffic through your blog doesn’t give it scientific veracity.

My blog talks about my deafness and about stem cell news. Also there’s alot of comments, some with facts and updates on the progress of stem cells. L Francis who commented on my blog reports a 20db improvement from stem cells. The stem cells pass one way or another, I am not sure.

If you look at the other posters on here with variable SN losses, you’ll find variations of this order. Even Kev (Kevels) was reporting that his tests were incongruous over a period of time depending on Audiologist and test conditions.

If you have a statistically significant number if people with this improvement, that’s great.

As for the transportation mechanism - I would suggest that this is the second most important part of the process: once you’ve proved you ‘can’ grow human IHC and OHC from stem cells in an adult.

My hearing often varies by 5db(give-take) between my ears. One ear can be 5db better or worse than the other anyday. Occasionally, I will have a 10db difference in one or two frequencies. The anti stem cell crowd would like to downplay or dismiss stem cells by saying the improvement is all in his head and that large variations are apparently normal. My criteria is a 10db minimum pure tone average improvement and the person reporting a subjective improvement in hearing. The question becomes whether a 10 or even 20db improvement justifies the cost rather than whether he improved in the first place.

Thus, I am waiting for stem cell technology to improve some more and to see more results. Every person has the right to decide for himself when he is ready to take the plunge with stem cells. There is a positive feedback mechanism where a few pioneers head into uncharted water then more follow, then those like me decide there’s enough results to go by. Others will see our success and decide it’s their turn next and so on till only those who choose to stay hearing impaired or deaf will remain so. It’s an easy choice for me to choose to get stem cells because we live in the hearing world and nature gave humans ears for a reason.

Notice to Moderator:

Can you possibly split this thread into two separate threads: 1.) Speech Recognition (which was tev232’s original post topic), and 2.) Stem Cell Arguments (which has little relation to the original post)?

oops…seems I have opened a bit of a can of worms with this…sorry about that. Didn’t mean to hijack the thread.

I’ll say this about stem cells and then I’ll drop the topic…I do believe that the research suggests that this could be the future of hearing loss…Stem cells can do some amazing things…I just don’t think we are only a few years away from “curing” hearing loss. I think there is FAR more research needed and proven, repeated, significant, and permanent success necessary before this becomes a real option to the majority of people suffering from adult-onset SNHL.

Basically, I think it’s foolish to pin one’s hopes on this as their solution when that solution is years/decades away from being a reality.

Moderator,

Also, please move the stem cell discussion out of the digital Hearing Aids forum since the topic has nothing to do with Digital Hearing Aids.

so, what’s actually missing? What are all those “permanent longlasting successes” than need to be achieved before stem cell therapy will become reality? I just would finally, strongly, happily like to know if the “successes” mentioned above are known and defined. I confess I feel myself a bit uncomfortable for “waiting for further improvements” without knowing what do I exactly have to wait for. Any references?

better place it into “stem cells” thread.