Not sure what you’re asking. I’d start with this one: 20Q: Frequency Lowering Ten Years Later - New Technology Innovations Joshua M. Alexander 20Q with Gus Mueller Hearing Aids - Adults Hearing Aids - Children VA Selections 18040 and then look at the links dealing with Sound Recover 2.
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I got my iCubeII a month ago and in fact I did some experiments with Soundrecover. Thanks again @MDB for your link it helped me a LOT to understand what is going on.
Yes, I can confirm that. This may be the case because our loss in the highs are very excessive.
For “extreme” values in SR2 I can confirm that, too.
With the help of MDB’s link I found out that I need position “1b” when using Soundrecover 2. I used it a fortnight. In this time I had to reduce the highs. Otherwise “sh” was so loud that I didn’t hear the vocals clear enough any more. For me SR2 is doing a good job in calm situations. It does frequency compression only as long as there is “high energy” in the lows and frequency compression plus transposition (=shifting) as soon as there is enough “energy” in the highs. The HA is switching between these too algorithms (shifting vs no shifting) as applicable, i.e. adaptive. But there is a pitfall: the gains before shifting and after shifting are not combined - you either hear orignial low frequency compressed or you hear high frequency compressd (at the same resulting frequency) but never both frequency-ranges at the same time.
The shifting is responsible for the bird’s chirping sounds like a crow or buzzard. Because the algorithm is working adaptive I don’t hear the corw all the time a bird is chirping: If there is a slight low-frequency background noise (like a fountain or a small waterfall), there is no crow or buzzard any more. In this case I don’t hear the bird’s chirping at the highs either.
The same applies to my microwave’s ending signal. When the running time has elapsed my microwave beeps at 3kHz but the oven does not stop running on its own. Its low frequency is loud enough that frequency shifting in my HA is not done, i.e. I don’t hear the ending signal at all (with SR2).
Again: Soundrecover 2 helps a lot in calm situations. SR1 does no shifting but there are many situations where correct suited SR2 values (in my case “1b”, I also tried other values with less success) sound too weird to me. The last two weeks I switched to Soundrecover 1 (first time ever!). At first I tried the lowest frequency and highest compression available. The following days I reduced frequency compression, now it is at 1:2.9 cut off is at 1.5kHz i.e. maxout is at about 3kHz since yesterday. It looks like it is the final adjustment of Soundrecover for me. Inteligibility is the same as if I switch to SR2 “1b”. But bird chirping is light bird chirping (very silent to me at propably 90-100dB but I don’t want my ears aching). I still don’t hear my microwave’s beeps but I don’t mind.
I am looking forward for Soundrecover 3 with the hope that low frequency compression and high frequency compression plus transposition is combined/composed/merged so I can hear original low and original high frequencies at the same resulting frequency at the same time (as far as I know Oticon does this).
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Glad the info was helpful. I’ve never used SR or SR2, my experience with frequency compression is only with Rexton’s Bandwidth compression which is similar to SR. However, I do have Target software and was looking at the settings for SR2. It seems like you can make SR2 closer to SR by varying the Comfort settings (a-d) That would allow you to keep the lower start frequency of SR2 but have less difference between the shifts. Out of curiousity, how did you shift to SR1? I don’t see any setting for how to do that, although I do you think one could hit a close approximation by varying the settings in SR2. Regarding things sounding weird. I realize my hearing loss is not nearly as severe as yours, but I’ve been amazed at my ability to gradually adjust to stronger settings of frequency lowering. I started off with lowering highs into the 4khz to 6 khz range and it initially sounded strange. Now I’m at 3.25-4.5 and it sounds just fine. 
Regarding Oticon. Their approach is completely different. They do combine the high frequencies with the lows, but they don’t allow downshifting as low as SR2 does, but does allow it to approximately the same 1500hz level that SR does. Keep us posted with your experiences.
I looks like you didn’t read the very long post thoroughly enough you originally linked to 
Okay, it was hard to read and get the difference in detail.
With SR2 you can’t prevent the adaptive shifting. Example. My audi originally set “10a”, i.e. upper cut was at 2.7kHz (I don’t hear it). In calm situations shifting is done from 2.7kHz down to 1.3kHz but frequencies in the range 2.0-2.7kHz remain unheard. In noisy environments there is no frequency shifting done, that means poor inteligibility. In May last year I went down to “7a” - that helped a lot and I used that adjustment a couple of months. Last month I tried “1b” because I need a upper cutoff at about 2kHz and a maxout value as low as possible. Sounds above 2kHz are shifted to 0.8kHz (the buzzards sound). In noisy environment I still miss all the frequencies above 2 kHz as long as there is no shifting.
With setting “1d” (“comfort”) shifting is still applied. There is no compression up to 2.7kHz. From 2.7kHz onwards the sounds are compressed and shifted to 0.9kHz. But the adaptive nature still remains! i.e. in noisy environment I still don’t hear any sound above 2kHz because there is no shifting done in noisy environment (high volume at low frequencies like a waterfall).
The setting “d”->“comfort” means that each input frequency has a single output frequency at any time whereas “clarity” leads to an algorithm where frequencies in the range between upper cutoff and maxout can be heard at two different output frequencies from time to time, i.e. adaptive. In “comfort” and of course “clarity” mode a single output frequency may be a result of two different input frequencies.
With Soundrecover 1 every input frequency has a dedicated output frequency and vice versa at any time. I believe the shifting is not the problem but its adaptive nature (for me!).
Btw. in “Target” you can switch between SR1 and SR2 globally on the top tab “Global tuning” and then bottom tab “SoundRecover”. There you can also apply “Calculate side independently” if you like. The latter you can also apply manually for specific programs in “Fine tuning”.
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Definitely claim no expertise in SR and SR2. That link is kind of an Everything you wanted to know about Frequency Lowering but we’re afraid to ask and I definitely haven’t mastered it all. I’m pretty comfortable the Signia/Siemens/Rexton version though.
Will need to read over this post a few more times (and look at Target) to truly grasp. I see what you’re saying about SR, but don’t really see how to adjust the SR settings. Will look more later. The point of the adaptive is to be able to shift to lower frequencies without distorting them. Definitely no perfect solution. Unfortunately very few audiologists seem to really tinker with frequency lowering. Seems like most will try default settings and then either turn it off or leave it on depending on client preference.
I totally agree with you.
You don’t use a Phonak HA (for yourself) so you don’t need to know the details about SoundRecover. And indeed it was very difficult for me, too, to get the differences. That’s why I bought another programmer (in my case iCubeII, Noahlink wireless is not working for me): With the new wireless programmer I can easyly turn on my virtual machine and start programming without plugging and unplugging the aids all the time, get out and listen and then go back to change settings again. Frequency lowering technic by Phonak is a try-and-error procedure. An audi can’t do much because he don’t know what the client actually hears, what he should hear and why it was worse or better. For an audiologist there is way to much fine tuning possible with Target. Either it works with the precalculated settings or it is switched off totally. In my case as a diy I can do short and long lasting experiments as needed. And I needed that time.
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Thanks. Still couldn’t figure out how to really switch from SR2 to SR in Target. Seemed to just allow for adjusting HAs separately in SR2. I would agree that audiologists can’t be familiar with all the software options, but I don’t think doing some basic audibility tests with REM is too much to ask for, but perhaps it is if I look at what reality seems to be.
Ah! Must depend on the hearing aids. I was looking for Audeo Bs. I’m guessing they dropped that option from Audeo Bs on. Mine just shows Calculate side independently. Thanks!
I was wondering the same thing. I have the SR and SR2 option with Naida v90 up aids.
Like not having receiver options on non receiver aids.
A long time ago I set initial properties:
Thanks. That does it!
I haven’t got SR2 but I’ve got old SR. I’ve had it activated on my DuoPhone program and it’s made all the difference. I don’t like it on any other program.
i noticed that sith sr off i see the audiogram going to the end of the scale, wit hit on the lines disappear. so is that taking the high sounds and shifting them down to the slower frequencies? for my audeo v aids i do not have the sr2 options so i’m guessing that my aids will not use that apart of the program. i still hear myself as an echo and tinny but it seems when i got to the program that lets me change some of the sounds i can lose that but then i have to turn up the aids to hear, so that to me is pointless and i take the changes away. so the sond recover is what i’m working on as i still have a hard time hearing the wife. her voice is in that range i have trouble with and she pronounces her words a bit different than most others, but others manage to understand her i can’t. so i’m working this sound recover to see if i can find a sweet spot. thanks.
Yes, SR takes the high frequencies, compresses them and shifts to lower frequencies. You are correct Audeo V did not have SR2. Audeo B and everything since have SR2. Default settings for SR are seldom strong enough. I’d suggest gradually making it stronger. For me that made a similar frequency lowering system easier to adjust to. What are your current SR settings? My understanding is that most people prefer SR2 because it only shifts the highs when it detects high frequency energy and therefore has less distortion. There are a ton of resources I can refer you to regarding frequency lowering but they can be pretty overwhelming.
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this is what i’m at now
this is my audio direct settings
for me anything around the 3.5k is just a buzzing sound and as you see at 4k the program will not even go high enough to let me hear anything. and i have not overridden it . so the sr is not even in the highest range for me. i tried moving the left side down into 3k but have not noticed any change so i put it back to default.
I think you’re going to need to get the Lower Cutoff frequency down to at least 2500hz to really notice anything–quite possible lower.
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thanks m will give that a try and see if it works in the program the fancy lines are where the program seems to like those settings so i left them at that point. i did not want change that part yet as i want to thing the program may know best.
ok this is where i moved it for now and will give it a try. as you see it is now below targets suggested setting. i will give it go. thanks
I use SR1 and my settings are 2kHz and 2.1CR. I am hearing so many new sounds. I didn’t get on with SR before but I increased the highs slightly more once I activated SR and that made all the difference.