I’m retired so I’m not in a lot of serious hearing environments. After 4 days, …105 receiver. One default program from Genie to try out with speech Rescue enabled. My audiogram is a testament of how well these Opn’s work (for me). Came from Agile Pro’s with the 100 receiver. The connectivity is worth the purchase imo. Walking with a iPhone app for distance and time, it talked to me about my progress and I don’t need to fetch a streamer when a call comes in. Siri talks to me via bluetooth using Maps for direction. Hearing voice better on the phone via bluetooth, same with the tv. Music in automobile sounds better even with speech Rescue enabled. Fan noise (Buick Lacrosse) really quiet, could hear better with passenger. Was at a birthday party, 30 some people, carpeted floors and ceiling tiles in a fairly large room with kids playing, adults chatting. I was relaxed and not straining too hard to hear the person next to me. Granted with my profound hearing loss I can never expect to hear everything but I was impressed. Read lips, body language and knowing the subject and object of conversation is important though. Will request a directional program to further trial these Opn’s so I have another tool to fall back on and get the connect clip later.
The only problem right now is the molds constantly pushing out even when sitting still, so irritating. Will need remade.
Lots in common with your comments with my Resound Forte. I’m going tomorrow for my 6 weeks follow-up appointment with good positive feedback
As you said, we may not hear all but these devices do offer us a lot of help.
No kidding, I’m impressed that you’re happy with it based on your audiogram. I’m sure the Speech Rescue feature is an invaluable feature for you. I like the Speech Rescue a lot. It sounds very natural to me.
I have both the 85dB and 105dB receivers. I had to have 1 of the custom molds of my 105dB receivers redone as well. Mine kinda slides out a little bit, too. Maybe a little too loose. The redone version was better.
There’s a new type of custom molds from Oticon called the Flexmold. You may want to check it out. Somebody on this forum had those molds so you may want to search for their posts and maybe PM them to see how they like it.
Volusiano…Yes, the Speech Rescue is moved into the 2000 Hz area. Thats as far as it can be utilized with me. I’m not sure my old Agile Pros had it on, I forget so I cant tell anyway if it helps. Default program on the Agile’s is maxed, so I had no volume left. I resorted to the music program if I wanted more amps in quiet situations… The 105 receivers on then OPN 1 give me 4 or 5 clicks more volume in default program so I’m good to go.
Yesterday I realized I was inserting the ha’s in my ears really far so that the tails on the molds were not sitting on the ear auricle part. Thats why they were sliding out constantly plus it seemed the receiver wires were tight on my upper ear pulling on the molds also. So it helped when inserting them using the tails as the foundation on the ear, instead of pushing in further. This helped a lot. Reason I was pushing them in further is because I got maybe a click more volume. But today my specialist is aware of this and suggested having them remade when I fully commit to purchase.
Thanks for the heads up on the Flexmolds.
***Now can you or someone help with a directional program? I asked today for a fully directional program to have another tool for hearing in really noisy places, She did. She has a lot of experience over like 20 plus years but playing around with my directional program doesn’t do anything (you know turning my back on the noise and hear it decrease). In fact it feels the same as default program 1. Granted my Agile Pro’s were not much use in directional mode (the way it was programed) but I remember trialing Phonak Audeo’s back in 09/10 with sound zoom. They were remarkable but I did not purchase them (buggy).
I’m thinking she made a mistake, doesn’t program for directional much or maybe doesn’t know how in Genie 2. OPN’s are her best sellers so she pushes them (no wonder). Can the OPN 's do directional well??? and can anyone help me guide her to properly do it, if thats the problem? I really need a beam forming hearing aid and hope the Oticons can do it well.
Hello Petermo. I need more power period (maxed out) and I like the connectivity. No longer do I fetch the neck streamer for a incoming call on iPhone 7. maps speak directly to my ears without streamer. Exercise app speaks to me. I discovered I can use my wireless TV headphones with the iPhone Live listen for better hearing watching tv. Or I can turn down the HA volume to stop the whistling by using the headphones over the HA’s (probably get the tv streamer at some point). and the future ConnectClip.
Agile Pros being 7 years old, they may not be performing as good as new. The receivers may need replaced/refurbished or the mics may be really dirty or plugged up though, but want new ones.
Definitely surprise how well they worked on default program at a party this past weekend (after two days of using them) as I explained above.
Definitely more clarity on the OPN’s and I needed new molds also. So I opted to demo the OPN’s.
Plus I’m sticking with discreet RIC’s. Don’t want bulky power BTE’s and tubes with huge ear molds. Power amplification in the highs give me what is called recruitment. Maybe for me to get used to (I’m a implant candidate) but again I don’t want big power aids.
Thanks for asking.
To verify that your audi programmed it correctly, ask her to show you the Genie 2 screen and in the lower right hand corner of the OpenSound Navigator page, you should see Directionality Setting with the value “Full Directional”. And the OpenSound Transition menu just above it to the left is blanked out.
While the OPN full directional mode does make a difference, but I think its difference is small that it’d be hard to notice. I have the same experience like you did. When I’m in a noisy restaurant, when I switch to the directional program, it hardly makes a difference to me.
I think that’s because the OPN’s “open” paradigm only does noise reduction on speech only, and only when speech is present, and not on steady state noise (like a fan or road noise, etc). So when there’s no speech, there’s no noise reduction, and even though the directionality IS set to ON (directionality is another form of noise reduction but via microphone beam forming instead of via signal processing type of NR), you still hear a lot of the diffused noise that are around you because they are present in the front, which is still being picked up by the beam form, even if this diffused noise is not picked up from the back. So it seems like there’s no noise reduction compared to the traditional hearing aid that does both beam forming and signal-processing type of NR even when there’s no speech.
I can verify that Full Directionality is set to ON beside seeing it on my Genie 2 screen by doing the following: I have a mini fan (about 5"x5") that I set on the table in a quiet room (so the fan is the only noise). Then I close my eyes and rotate on my swivel chair slowly. I can tell that when the fan is behind me, the sound of the fan is the weakest. Of course when it’s in front of me, the sound is the loudest. That’s how I know that directionality is on and activated without looking at my Genie 2 screen. But in a noisy place like a restaurant, just plain directionality without signal-processing type of NR when speech is not present, you can’t really tell a difference.
The only difference you MAY be able to tell is that when speech in front of you is present, it should already be clear in the default P1 mode, but it may be a little bit clearer with directionality set to ON because you get a little extra boost of increased SNR from directionality. But if the room is way too noisy and even the OPN NR during speech can’t clean up the noise well enough, a little more SNR boost from directionality isn’t going to help and it’s going to sound the same between P1 and the Directional program.
What you should make sure your audi does along with setting to Full Directional, is to set the noise reduction value to -3dB (max) in Simple Listening environment (left bottom of the screen shot above), and -9dB (max) for Complex listening environment, if not already set like that. That should help make sure that the NR that cleans up the speech (only when speech is present) can clean it up as much as possible.
Another reason why it’s hard to tell a difference between the P1 and the Directional program in the OPN is because in P1, it’s set to Open Automatic. That already lets P1 do automatic directionality to an extent, when there’s a well placed noise source on the sides or behind you, it’ll try to null that noise out. But P1 doesn’t do fixed/full directionality. It uses a different type of directionality called MVDR (Minimum Variance Distortionless Response) beam forming in its Balance module.
If you care to know more about how the OPN Balance module does MVDR beam forming, you can read the snippet below:
I was just wondering Volusiano. Based on my audiogram what power dB receivers should I be looking at. I want to be pro active with my audiologist. Can you explain to me what the difference in dB receivers are? Also explain how Speech rescue works. I understand it allows speech to be more clearly understood when spoken at higher frequencies, which is where some of my hearing loss is??? I’m wanting to be a little more knowledgeable on what to ask and discuss with my Audi. Thanks so very much. Appreciated.
Thank you. After I asked the question I felt quilty I did not fully read up on what has already been said in previous threads. There is a lot to read about OPN directionality. For anyone Search “'opn directional programs”
Thanks for taking the time. I will study up and see my specialist, She is BC-HIS, COHC, Nationally Board Certified in Hearing Instrument Sciences.
With my hearing loss I need a strong beam forming program to mingle in crowed spaces and hear the person directly in front to save myself. Maybe the OPN is not best for me but then the ConnectClip may save me in those situations, But not the same as discreetly changing program in an instant with a strong beam form. I have 30 days.
Hi Haywood. If you have a speech in noise program (directional beam forming) on your Resound Forte (8?) how is it working for you in a crowded restaurant or mingling around in a crowded party atmosphere?
I’ve recently written a review on this forum about the Sonic Enchant 100 and compared it for the OPN 1. Based on what you’re saying here, I think maybe you’ll like the Sonic Enchant 100 better. It’s very similar to the OPN 1 in terms of connectivity and many functionalities. It’s mainly different in the core noise reduction approach. The Enchant is much more aggressive with the beam forming and also signal-processing type noise reduction, similar to Agil Pro type approach that you had. But it’s more automatic and adaptive so it’s more effective for people who like strong beam forming in noisy places and don’t want to hear too much noise because it’s too distracting to them.
You should search and read up on that review, and give it a try if that’s the type of hearing aid you’re looking for.
I think the 85dB receivers should probably be enough for your loss although there’s probably not much room left if your hearing worsens in the future. The 100dB receivers will have a little more power than you need but it’s more future proof in case your hearing worsens, although you can always upgrade later, no big deal. The higher the numbers, the more amplification power the receiver can achieve. Your worst hearing loss is in the high frequencies around 80dB of threshold value so that’s why the 85dB receiver can still handle your loss OK.
What Speech Rescue does is it copies the sounds in the higher frequency range and transpose it down to a lower frequency range (as low as the mid 2KHz range). It’s helpful if you have very bad loss in the high frequency range but not as severe loss in the mid range. So it basically moves the sounds from the frequency spectrum where you have a very hard time hearing to a lower frequency spectrum where you still have decent hearing left to be able to pick up the lowered sounds. Primarily for speech, the “s” and “sh” type sound that you can’t hear before can be heard much clearer when it gets moved to the lower frequency where your hearing is still adequate.
In your case, your right hearing loss is about the same starting at 1.5KHz and up, and only dropped a bit at 8KHz. And the lowest destination range to lower to is around 1.5KHz to 2KHz. So your right ear may not benefit much from Speech Rescue. But your left hearing gets worse after 2KHz, so it can benefit from Speech Rescue so you can hear those sounds at around 4-8KHz better at 2KHz. But if you’re going to use Speech Rescue on the left ear, might as well use it on the right ear so that you have a symmetrical effect for both ears.
Hello I had the clinician recheck the speech in noise and made sure it was set as you noted. I can tell the difference. I don’t think she set it up originally like that but I’m not making a issue of it.
Wasn’t able to try out in a restaurant yet but I played a speaking video at various volumes on my mac and turned the tv channel with a lot of talking. Both were about 8 feet apart. I turned with my back to the voice and noise source and sure enough whats in front of me, the voice picks up, and whats behind me goes down. Noise goes down more than speech.
The closer I move to the voice I want to hear better, the more voice clarity… and whats behind me… noise and voice goes down mostly noise. Wish there was more noise reduction other than just 9db. wonder why???
Of course with my profound hearing loss I don’t actually understand all speech but it greatly helps because they are just hearing aids. In combo with lip reading, body language, knowing the object and subject, I can survive in noise. Been doing it for 50 some years.
The Sonic Enchant 100 has up to 15dB max of noise reduction, while the OPN has only 9 dB max of noise reduction. But like I have explained in detailed in my Enchant 100 review thread, in one of the posts right after the review, the OPN does noise reduction differently than the Enchant, so it’s not apple to apple comparison. I won’t go into the details here again and you can read my post in that thread for more details.
But the 9dB max noise reduction on the OPN is strictly to improve speech clarity ONLY and ONLY in the presence of speech. Oticon might have deemed that 9dB noise attenuation during speech is the most it’ll ever have to apply to clean up speech, so they don’t need to do more attenuation than that most of the time. But Enchant strives to reduce noise even in the absence of speech, so they may try to be more aggressive about the noise when there’s no speech as well, and 15dB noise attenuation may be how far they deem they can go when there’s no speech. But it doesn’t mean that they actually apply 15dB noise attenuation during speech. They might have applied 9dB max during speech as well, we don’t know. What we do know is that the OPN applies noise reduction based on an advanced noise model which is sounds in the back and the sides. But the Enchant has no noise model to based on. They detect the noise in the more traditional way of looking for modulation in the signal and little modulation implies noise, which is not as accurate as using a noise model because the noise model is modeled after the real sounds that’s considered noise (back and sides sounds).
One thing I test out the noise reduction is that I put the ventilation fan in my car on max power. Then I just speak by myself (or sing) and I can tell that during my sentence, the fan noise seems to subside compared to my talking. But as soon as my talking stops, the fan noise resumes at full volume. This is consistent with the OPN strategy of only cleaning up noise during speech, but leaving noise untouched when there’s no speech.
I read last week all the work you did on the Enchant. I can try the Enchant per my communication with my clinician, no problem. The thing about the Sonic Enchant (As i read and understand about it), is you need the SoundGate 3 Streamer for the remote mic to work with the HA’s. A remote mic comes in handy in situations, but using the a secondary device like I have with the Agile Pros is a turn off for me. The Oticon ConnectClip is perfect, just turn it on and it connects directly to the HA with all day battery power. Thanks for all your work, if it is work to you. You apparently love to read and research hearing devices.
I see. Yeah, but I have a hunch that if you wait just a little bit longer, once the ConnectClip for the OPN becomes available by mid Dec’17, I suspect that Sonic will be able to leverage that product from Oticon and use it for the Enchant as well. The Sonic Enchant TV Adapter looks just like the Oticon OPN so I have very little doubt that Sonic will make available the equivalent of the OPN ConnectClip shortly after the OPN version gets released.
I’m suspicious of the clinician programing my aids. First she went against my wishes and suggested I first use the default program only. Then second visit upon my request, programed in a speech in noise program. Then went back tell her speech in noise program doesn’t seem to make a difference, so she reprogrammed with the max noise reduction as per volusiano’s recommendations. Makes a fairly good difference to me…BUT
I asked why the iPhone and the Oticon ON app is noting program 2 as “Lecture” and she assured me it was full direction speech in noise. Now I’m hearing that “Lecture” is just another Genie preset or program.
So my question is why my 2nd program listing as “lecture” instead of “Speech in Noise”. I would think the genie parameters are different between “lecture” and “Speech in noise”
My new remade moulds I’m not happy with. The left will move out more than the right especially if I’m straining working out or exercising or yawning, chewing hard and generally loosening up after a longer period of time. The left canal Lock (horn) isn’t as big and neither sits where is supposed to be naturally. Not sure If I’d be happy with skeleton moulds. I’m going to ask about the flex moulds Monday.
Edit: additional. I wish everything I hear was BlueTooth. Using the smart phone. Viewing videos on the the smartphone. Listening to music via bluetooth, Listening to Tv via Bluetooth from my wireless tv headphones via Live Listen (no tv streamer yet) I hear very well considering my profound loss. But over the air voice, tv music I obviously still struggle.
Thinking I could use multiple mini drones constantly hovering over all important sound sources, bluetoothing the multiple sounds and voices directly into HA’s as I go about my daily life. That would work. lol kidding.
I went on Genie 2 and compared the OpenSound Navigator between the Speech In Noise and Lecture and they both have the same settings in there from what I can tell. My guess is that she mistakenly selected Lecture for you when you asked for Speech in Noise. But upon your inquiry, she went back and noticed that Speech in Noise and Lecture have the same OSN settings, so rather than having you come back to change it to Speech in Noise, she told you that it is Speech in Noise. What she should have told you is that she might have picked the wrong program from what you requested, but luckily, Lecture has the same OSN parameters as Speech in Noise so you don’t have to come back to reprogram it again.
Why would Oticon have 2 programs with the same settings but call them different names? I don’t know, but maybe those parameters are suitable for either environments in their opinion. What they should have done is create one program called “Speech in Noise and Lecture” altogether. This would prevent wasting a additional program in the case there’s a user who might want to be in both environments and unknowingly program both in there without realizing that they simply have the same settings anyway.
I notice that both of them actually have the “Open Automatic” for Directionality setting, not Full Directional value. So if you asked your clinician to change the OSN setting to Full Directionality, then that’d be a manual override that deviates from the Speech in Noise and Lecture programs.