Sh sounds with Phonak Naida

Hearing Aids
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#1

For more than 50 years I have been wearing BHE aids. The last pair, which I was wearing for 5 years, are Oticon antilog and a Resound digital. Almost a month ago I was fitted with a pair of BHE aids (Phonak Naida) and I am near the end of my trial period. I have been back to the audiologist for adjustments twice. First was to ask for the sh sounds to be removed & some loudness in the low tones to be lessoned. The second visit was because the sh was still there. People sound like they are slurring their words. My daughter & husband tell me I am beginning to add sh sounds to my speech. Does anyone have any advice on how to get rid of the sh sounds?

……250 ….500 ……750 …. 1k …1.5k … 2k …. 3k …. 4k …. 6k ….8k <O:p></O:p>
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R – 75 …… 90 ……. 80 …… 85 …85 .… 75 … 80 …… 85 …. 90 … 100<O:p></O:p>

#2

There is an available feature in the Naida (you didn’t say which level you have) called “sound recover” which takes sounds which are too high pitched for you to hear normally and shifts them into lower frequencies which are audible to you. Ask your audi if “sound Recover” is active and if it is ask him/her to let you sample his/her speech without it activated. Perhaps there are adjustments in that area which may increase your satisfaction with the equipment.

Good Luck,
TerryB

#3

Is there another name for the sh sound GLI describes? Is it reverb? I would like to describe this in a way that the audi will know exactly what I am talking about. I hear it mostly with my own voice and TV/radio, a kind of echo or “halo” following a sound. I might be able to get used to it because sound recover was one of the big selling points of Phonak, compared to Oticon. Is sound recover just ON/OFF? No compromise?
Thanks!

#4

Sorry nan2,
SH would be better called sibilance. Reverberation would be a trailing, diminishing echo sound. You may also be describing the “sound” of the increased sound of your own voice caused by the occlusion of the aid system in your ear. I’m sure that sound recover (which is only working on the high frequency SH sounds, or bird calls or keys jangle, etc. has adjustable levels and frequencies. Not just turned on/off. I think I have a minor problem with sound recover in that I hear two frequencies when I whistle at a certain pitch. It seems to me that I do hear the source frequency but the HA thinks it needs to be shifted to be audible so I get both through the speaker and the vent.

TerryB

#5

Sound Recover can be made stronger/weaker or turned completely off.

Typically patients who are having issues with sounds sounding “too lispy” are ones that are having processing issues with sound recover.

New KS 10 and everyone now has a Lisp
#6

Thank you for a better understanding of Sound Recover and sibilance. I can see how having an ideal setting for Sound Recover could have advantages. Or is this a situation where the Target software is smart and better left alone?
Does Sound Recover increase or moderate harsh metallic mechanical sounds? Or just the verbalized sh?

#7

I am a user, not a pro in the industry, but this should illustrate the function. Sound recover to my knowledge functions by lowering sounds above a certain frequency to a narrower band of frequencies below that freq. e.g. if your loss is most severe above 5kHz, the audi might set the frequencies above that cutoff which are inaudible to you to be shifted down to a block between 3.5 kHz and 5 kHz so that you could hear activity of high pitched sound now. An example would be a bird call might be inaudible at 6 kHz but recognizable at 4 kHz It would be recognizable as a bird call by its sound even though the pitch would be different. The purpose is really to make those sounds which help us differentiate between s, p t, v, etc. but the computer moves all those high pitch sounds, not just speech.

My fitting report says 4.6 kHz and 2.8:1 compression. My layman’s interpretation is that sounds above 4.6 kHz are shifted below that cutoff and the sound spectrum is compressed by 2.8 to 1. That is the sounds from 4.6 to 7.6 kHz are compressed into a 1 kHz block below 4.6. I would expect this explanation to draw some comments.

Hope this helps,
TerryB

#8

I would say that is an excellent explanation of how sound recover works.

#9

Thanks! I appreciate knowing that I had the right understanding.

TerryB

#10

In laymans terms, where before I could not hear the bell on my cat’s collar, I now can hear it.

GLI, does your audi do REM (real ear measurement)? I can’t “picture” what the SH sound you’re talking about, but I know that I was having bass problems (like when I’m in the dining room I would hear the TV in the adjoining living room and the sound would be “split” - I’d hear different things at the same time). When my audi did REM with my new aids, that problem went away. The program had given me too much bass based on my hearing test.

#11

Terry - Just curious on what aids you use now. Our loss is similar is some aspects and I am shopping - Taking my time. I currently have CIC’s - That’s all I have ever had. Currently get feedback at all different times / reasons. My audiogram has dropped a bit in the past 3 years so I am considering BTE’s for that reason (longer life) as well as more features.

Audiologists out there… Another question: What mold or dome would you consider for my loss? Suggestions on aids?? I am considering the Ambra but am totally open as i want the best result, period.

Thanks

#12

Can’t do that without audiometric information. Provide that and I would be able to make a suggestion.

The Ambra is the newest aid on the market but I don’t have any personal experience with it. If you are interested in the newest/best, then as far as I know, that would be it.

#13

Hello MAJ,
I am using the Phonak Ambra. I tried the Audeo Smart ix BTE, but had extreme problems with sweat getting in the battery compartment and shutting down the aid. The Ambra is ITE and they are great. They have all the features of dual mics on both sides and are the Spice chip so all the bells and whistles. Mine are half shell form and I can’t feel them at all right now. Of course I have worn ITE for over 15 years. I go to the VA audi in 3 weeks and I have only a few changes in mind:

  1. Instead of the simplified PilotOne remote I want my MyPilot back it is more complex, but more precise.
  2. I want my experience factor raised, I believe that will remove some constraints from the aids.
  3. I want music available as a manual choice, at present I have only soundflow, StereoZoom and Zoom Control.

Good Luck with your search.
TerryB

#14

nan2’s question (#3): “Is sound recover just ON/OFF? No compromise?”
Answer: Went to audiologist yesterday and asked. It seems it can be lessened or turned off. I opted to have it turned off. Now I don’t have the “sh” sound or I like better your description “echo.”
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nan2’s question (#6): “Does Sound Recover increase or moderate harsh metallic mechanical sounds? Or just the verbalized sh?”
Answer: I think it may moderate the harsh metallic sound since those sounds are now bothering me. I am wondering why have an aid that I don’t use the big selling part of its program
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BlueSumos (#10) question “GLI, does your audi do REM (real ear measurement)?”
Answer: I am not sure what REM is. I’ll ask the next time I see the audiologist.

#15

I asked the audi about REM. She knows what it is, but said something about not needing to do it with the new type of aids. She did add maybe in the future she would do it. Wish she explained it more to me. Could you or would someone? Since it was near the end of the trial period, I gave up the Phonak pair and asked for something from Oticon. My past 3 pair of hearing aids have been Oticon so I thought I might be more comfortable with their sounds. My audi ordered a pair of Oticon Chili aids. I asked for the SP9 since I wanted the music program.<O:p</O:p