Random Resets - GN Resound Ziga

Okay, 2-year hearing aid wearer. Wear it regularly, at least in the daytime. My wife wishes I wore it more, but so :smiley:

I use Eveready batteries. About a year back started noticing that the GN Resound Ziga (left year only) goes into a reset mode when i shrug, move, yawn, chew, what have you. Highly annoying :mad:.

The trained placement professional I went to was recently rightsized, so the replacement person has done they “send to mfgr” dance where the instrument was dewaxed, dried, and all that jazz that didn’t quite fix the issue :cool:.

Extenuating circumstances: I have a funny shaped left year, post surgery. It sticks out funny and my 7 year old says it looks like a snail (inside :p). =) Extra large canal, though getting the impression material out was a challenge. The in-ear piece fits well now that I am used to it. It’s the over the ear bit that I suspect is an issue.

Any ideas :confused: ? Your help is sincerely appreciated. Happy Holidays!

Resound has these issues somewhat frequently. After the first handful (:() of aids in this product family that began doing this, Resound began doing courtesy replacements for my patients. Meaning, your audi can call Resound and be displeased enough with multiple repairs and request a “courtesy replacement”. This means Resound will replace the aid completely with a new one at no cost to the patient. Especially if the aid was sent for repair and STILL having the problem, ask your audi to request a replacement. I usually notice this issue around year 2 or 3 of use.

The new generation of Resound instruments don’t seem to have such an issue, but they are new so I’m waiting for year 3 of wear to roll around.

Good luck!

dr. amy :stuck_out_tongue:

Appreciate the input, Dr. Amy. I will take it up with my audi.

It’s an interesting problem. I have 3 Zigas sitting neatly in a row on my bench and don’t quite know what to do about them. They all have a problem with zero or very low circuit drain so it’s most likely a problem with the connection from the battery contacts to the circuit. Normally I’d bypass the power wires to the circuit but the whole thing is buried in a housing - great for manufacturing but tough to repair. This problem probably does not affect their custom lines of ITEs - just the BTEs.

That’s a bit of an assumption, wouldn’t an open circuit receiver give the same issue?

Typically, a no-drain state in a hearing aid circuit means that there’s a problem with either the battery contacts or the lines leading to the circuit or a bad on/off switch. A hearing aid with reduced drain and no output would probably mean there’s a problem with an open receiver. A hearing aid with normal drain and no output would probably mean the receiver is plugged with earwax. A hearing aid with normal or reduced drain with some circuit noise would probably mean a problem with the microphone, it’s connections or with the amplifier. You can spot most problems with a simple drain meter. If you have no drain meter, you’re just stabbing wildly in the dark.

Intermittent problems are the toughest problems to repair. However, since the original poster’s aid acts as if the battery door was opened and closed - a problem with the battery power to the circuit seems like a logical place to investigate. I would connect it to a drain meter and then try to induce a fail condition by thumping the aid - not too hard though! OTOH, it’s most likely that the OP’s hearing aid provider has not a drain meter to be had in the office nor a technician that knows how to use it. That’s the current state of hearing aid care in 2010.

Many providers have equipment to check the drain/charge but if the OP’s professional did, he would still send the aid in for repair, and would still be better off requesting a new aid entirely since apparently the whole product line has been manufactured with this defect.

dr. amy

If you want to kill the receiver by knocking the reed onto one of the magnets go ahead.

Your little analysis didn’t actually cover what I mentioned above, which is an open circuit condition in the receiver ‘motor’. That’s going to exhibit pretty much the same drain as a faulty connection, simply because the output side of the amplifier will not draw any current and the input side circuit pull only uAmps relative to the receivers.

The aids above are likely to be shorting out through the switch either back to the negative rail or to a different part of the circuit. This commonly happens when either the switch is mounted directly on the pcb and the contacts are displaced or when the detent media breaks down. Detent media failures were common on the Phonak Claro due to the natural rubber used in it’s gasket. This may be a similar issue.

Whichever case it’s a return for repair, AND if the dispenser has sufficient leverage to claim that the product isn’t fit for purpose, it should be repaired/refurbed free of charge.

By “motor” I assume you mean the field windings. My assumption was that by open circuit receiver you’re talking about one with a break in the windings which causes the receiver to have zero drain. You might not notice a difference of .2 mA drain from normal but I sure can. Is this what you’re talking about?

I don’t want to argue this point with you because in this case, the problem is probably not with the receiver anyway. As it goes, I don’t have any inside info from Resound but my guess is that the fix is a simple redesign of the way the power is sent to the circuit to protect it from failure either through corrosion or shock. Your open receiver is a red herring.

It was an illustration of another event that would cause drain to be reduced to practically zero. In receiver design the coil/reed/balanced armature assembly is called the motor.

The likely failure (as pointed out above) is in the push button design, which is fairly integral to the case. This has nothing to do with the battery contacts or the power transfer to the circuit.

My understanding is that you worked for Knowles so this is your area of expertise. But you should cut me a break. Guys in the industry have their own terminology, you should use that when you speak to others that work in the micro-transducer industry. All I have to go on is standard electronics terminology. Your insistence on using specialized words like “motor” smacks of simple one-upsmanship.

You could be totally correct about the problem with the aid - if you have any insider knowledge of this problem I’d sure like to know the scoop on this. Otherwise, all this is speculation.

On the subject of me breaking receivers, here’s my take. Most of the problems with ITE {In The Ear) hearing aids come from blockage to the receiver (loudspeaker.) Typically this is what happens when someone brings a dead hearing aid into an office to be serviced: The service person will put the aid in a vacuum chamber and/or try to vacuum out the receiver with a with a needle tip. Sometimes this works but most of the time it doesn’t. The aid is then packed up and sent to the factory for repair. The factory then either clears out the receiver or replaces it and sends the aid back. The aid is returned to the user and along with a bill for $150 to $200 for the repair - if the aid is not in warranty.

What happens when someone come into my office with a dead aid is that I’ll first verify the the drain is normal and if it is, I’ll try to clean out the receiver using a industrial vacuum pump and a needle tip. Most of the time, the blockage will be cleared out in a few seconds, about 10 percent of the time, the blockage is quite deep and has hardened. In these cases, more aggressive techniques are in order and about half the time I’m successful. If I can’t get the receiver cleared, I’ll typically just replace it myself while the customer waits.

Most of the time, I won’t have to go that far and will give the aid back with a recommendation that they bring their aids in ever few months for a free cleaning. If I have to replace a part, I’ll also charge them $100 to $125 otherwise, this service is free. If I like them, I’ll even give them a pen with my name on it. Mostly they go away with a smile on their face. It’s a lousy business model but this is the level of service that I’m committed to.

Here’s a dirty little secret - the receivers that most folks consider so delicate are able to withstand a needle vacuuming at 22 inches HG. As long as my competition has a fear of breaking delicate receivers, I’m gonna have a little edge over them. Hopefully, nobody in the industry will take this post seriously - I have very little fear of that happening. :slight_smile:

Thanks, none taken ;). Not one-upmanship, just experience at most levels of the industry. As English Dispenser if you want some confirmation.

As Dr Amy pointed out above, there’s an inherent issue with this case design. As the push-button is integral to this design and I’ve experienced some of the same issues, I’ve made the reasonable assumption about the source of the issue. If you want to see more references to Resound materials and casing failure have a search on the Be7 threads.

Receivers are designed to be capable of dealing with de-compression (it’s one of the functions of an integral Thuras tube). Receivers aren’t designed to deal with lateral shock damage. Suggesting anybody knocks an aid (on a public forum) is just a bad idea, which will probably result in more damage to aids than was originally there.

Servicing receivers using a vacuum is fine. If you can extend the life of aids that way, more power to your elbow.

You and me too. Like I’ve said on here previously, the people who make the most money out of this business aren’t necessarily the ones who offer the best service.

Everybody needs a niche. Hope yours works out for you.

I’m familiar with the casing because I’m trying to figure out a way to repair the aids. The push button is not integral to the case since it’s not attached - it may look that way because of the remarkable tolerance and fit of the button. The part doing the actual switching is located on the circuit module. The case is made from some sort of hi-tech material and it’s an elegant, well designed, piece of very high quality.

The problem with your analysis is that the button operates a soft switch which is multi-functional. Short pushes cycles through the programs, you can switch the aids off by holding the button for a few seconds. It’s likely that in this state, it’s not really off but in a low drain, sleep state. I believe that you can wake the aids up by pushing and holding the button down but it’s not a hard start or a reboot but I may be wrong about this.

Anyway, the important part is that there’s no way to instantly cause a hard start or reboot with this button. Another thing is that these micro switches don’t usually fail in a shorted state, and it’s easy to tell when they’re bad - you’ll seen corrosion damage and they simply fail to function.

My guess is that the problem is with the circuit module - moisture gets into the module next to where the contacts enter and travels along the power path. I’m gonna guess that the problem lies in where the contacts attach to the flexi-circuit board. All this is speculation on my part. I have no insider information.

Manufactures like Resound are very concerned with corrosion protection - an important part of their designs is protecting the components from moisture. The irony is that these protection schemes will actually promote corrosion once moisture can find a way in.

.

To dsi1 or um bongo: That is my suspicion exactly, that it is the program push-button and/or the volume push-button OR an open circuit that has caused my Ziga ReSound to malfunction and work erratically. (Intermittently amplifying, intermittently able to go from one program to another; and frequently resetting itself.) Have you succeeded in taking apart the case to examine the button mechanism? Has anyone?
NOTE: my HA went out of warranty (bought in Nov. 2008). It gave me intermittent problems all along, but I was not assertive in asking that something be done about it; and it seriously stopped working properly only during these last 3 months.

Julie,
I had a great experience getting my HA repaired at www.directhearingaidservices.com located in Garden Grove, CA. It cost $142.99 including shipping and I had it back in 6 days working like new. My audi wanted 3 times as much and it was going to take 2 weeks. You can call at 1-888-580-4327 and tell them what’s going on with the HA’s and he’s real good at telling you what needs to be done to fix it. Good luck!