Questions re: Phonak Target and my hearing loss

Hearing Aid Self-Fitting and Adjusting [DIY]
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#1

For the audiologists (or techies out there). I have a few questions specific to Phonak target software. I have shiny new Audeo S IX aids:

  1. Sound recover, (which says it moves high frequency to lower. It seems like it will cut off some of the high freqs. I know I can try it on and off to see if any difference, but wonder if anyone has any suggestions

  2. Each aid has a “Gain” combo box with LOTSA options, insertion gain, real ear, etc. Can anyone explain the difference or where I can find more info?

  3. Compression setting (being a sound guy, I know what compression means in mixers / amplifiers, but this seems different. What is the diff between linear and prescribed compression?

  4. my Audio did my hearing test with regular headphones prior to ordering these aids. Would it be more accurate if I repeated the test with the target software and the aids at home? It seems to me that with these speakers in my ear, the curves would be more accurate than the ones done in the docs office?

Thanks

#2

Hi Bruce! I recently acquired Phonak Ambra HAs and Target 3 so we are going down a similar path. I suspect you are more into the theory behind what the software does than what I am. I have just taken the simple approach of turning knobs one at a time to see if it makes things better or worse. I am the first to admit I’m not trained in audiology nor the software so I am simply looking to do the best I can with what the software offers. I started with entering in my audiogram and let the software setup the HAs with all the defaults (the so called First Fit). From there I have added and subtracted programs and features but have not played with the compression ratios. Mainly because the default setting have worked so much better than the Bernafon Chronos HAs that I had been trialing before the Phonaks. With that said, I would make the following comments to your questions below:-

  1. Sound recover, (which says it moves high frequency to lower. It seems like it will cut off some of the high freqs. I know I can try it on and off to see if any difference, but wonder if anyone has any suggestions

I have this turned ON for the automatic programs then I created a CUSTOM program by copying the MUSIC program settings over, then turned OFF sound recover. I’m still experimenting but I find the sound of music more to my liking with the Sound Recover feature OFF. However, with it ON in the Automatic programs, I find I DO hear high pitched sounds that I would not otherwise. For example, when our hot water kettle reaches the preset temperature it emits a ding-ding sound – couldn’t hear that before. I seem to hear birds chirping better also. YMMV.

  1. Each aid has a “Gain” combo box with LOTSA options, insertion gain, real ear, etc. Can anyone explain the difference or where I can find more info?

[FONT=Arial]I have not touched this so cannot comment. But for what it is worth, when I change the Target Gain (on the Basic Tuning screen) from 80% to 100% it makes a very noticable difference. Initially I started with 80% and found 100% too intrusive, but I’ve since gone to 100% and am happy with that now.

  1. Compression setting (being a sound guy, I know what compression means in mixers / amplifiers, but this seems different. What is the diff between linear and prescribed compression?

From the online PDF guide (click on the Help button) it suggests that people who are long time wearers of HAs might prefer linear compression to better match their previous analog experience. I just went with the prescribed compression.

  1. my Audio did my hearing test with regular headphones prior to ordering these aids. Would it be more accurate if I repeated the test with the target software and the aids at home? It seems to me that with these speakers in my ear, the curves would be more accurate than the ones done in the docs office? [/FONT]

Only you can tell. I’m still experimenting with this. I use the HAs and also put on a pair of heavy duty ear muffs (the type used at the gun clubs) and take the measurements. Still comparing the experience of the HAs doing it this way versus using the audiogram that was done 6 months ago.

Let’s continue to share experiences on this.

#3

ok, and another question… on the data logging page, there is an option for user preference tuning or user preference learning. What is the difference?

Thank you again

#4

The best I can tell, one stores your usage details which can be examined when connected up to the software and a decision can then be make to make adjustments to the HAs, whereas the other setting will encode your usage habits “on the fly”. For example, if in preference learning mode and you are constantly turning up the volume, over time, the HAs will stay adjusted to a higher volume level. At least that is all in theory. I’m still experimenting between the two.

#5

  1. doesn’t cut off the frequencies, it compresses them into a lower frequency area. if when you are in the fine-tuning page, you click on the tab in the window that says ‘client view’ it will pop up a window that has speech sounds down along the bottom. if you hover/click on them, they will display on the screen above. the gray letter is where that sound normally occurs at, the yellow is where soundrecover and amplification move it to.

  2. probably could do a search on-line. ‘hearing aid term X’ should do it, with ‘X’ being the term you want. Real ear is a measurement done with probes and speakers and additional equipment that show exactly what the HA’s are doing in your ear in real-time. Phonak software can’t do it. Insertion gain is the amount of volume you get when you put the hearing aids in (difference between real-ear aided response and unaided response REAR/REUR).

  3. Prescribed compression is the amount of compression Phonak has come up with on their own as the best for their own products. Linear means that there is a set amount of gain going out vs. amount of volume coming in, and that doesn’t change until you hit a point where the hearing aid essentially stops amplifying. For example, a linear hearing aid might send out 3 dB of gain for every 1dB coming into the hearing aid until it hits, say, an output of 100dB where it’s 1dB out for 1dB in or some other value. A compression hearing aid varies the amount of volume going out based on what’s coming into the hearing aid and it changes for different input (or output depending on the type of circuit it is, input or output compression). Generally, the louder the sound, the less volume goes out, the softer the sound, the more volume that goes out. The ear is a non-linear system so a compression hearing aid is an attempt to duplicate this response and also restore normal loudness growth. This a FAR more complex function than this answer lets on…there are different kinds of compression, different amounts of compression happening in different channels at the same time, all sorts of things that play into it.

  4. I’m not a fan of using the audiometer in software, except for Widex because it’s part of the software, because it never comes out the same as when the patient is in the booth. I will take a questionable sound booth and old (but calibrated) audiometric equipment any day over the audiometry program located in manufacturer software sitting in your home.

Yes. I hate it. I don’t like hearing aids making any programming changes automatically.

#6

I know one shows the adjustments you make on the software and one physically changes your hearing aid to a higher volume or lower volume depending on what you keep changing it too.

Can anyone confirm exactly which one does what? I’ve got my hearing aids set to ‘learning’ one.

I lost my iCube in a fire so it’ll be great if my hearing aids are set to the changing one.

EDIT - I’ve just re read above and I think my HAs are set to the right one to make adjustments.

#7

Does anyone know if the learning mode will increase volume across all programs or just the program I’m in, if I raise the volume by 1 click every morning?

#8

Found my answers from @rasmus_braun Thank you! :slight_smile:

I still don’t know how quickly User Preference Learning will kick in if I up the volume by 1 click.