Please help me. I can't take this anymore

#41

Very interesting issue you’re having, yuvalfrr, and it doesn’t sound at all pleasant, and you say that as part of trying to address it you’ve already seen 3 ENT’s and an audiologist and all testing has come back normal.

Have you booked in to see a neurologist yet?? From all that you’ve written in this thread, and even though you might not be so keen, do this and see a neurologist as recommended. The neurologist should take a thorough medical history including onset, current and any changed symptomatology, medication and/or environmental changes, and a number of physical health investigations. It may reveal what’s going on.

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#42

I use the IQbuds MAX earbuds. They enable you to manually tune/control sounds around you. Increasing or reducing bass/treble, enhancing frequencies of speech vs. ambient noise, etc.

They are not intended as hearing aids, but more as hearing augmentation devices for situational use.

Here’s a screenshot of the World EQ feature from the companion smartphone app:

world-eq
world-eq450×800 40.6 KB

#43

That’s an interesting product, I’ll check it out.
I HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS FOR ALL YOU KIND REPLIERS.

My only tool for investigating what’s going on in my ears (or rather my brain) has been my Sony WH-1000XM4 headphones. Thanks to a useful Android app I can perform extensive EQ, with a different EQ for each ear. This equalizer has 31 bands, not as accurate as a Parametric EQ but certainly a good way to investigate the matter.
I am quite sure to this day that my most affected frequencies are the relatively high treble frequencies, the magic number, to my assessment, is 8Khz. But also 6-7Khz and 9-10Khz seem problematic. I believe the worst sibilants are in this spectrum. Even though sibilance can even start at 3-4Khz.
So up till now all I did was destroy treble on my stereo speakers, and same on headphones.
While deadening treble does provide relief from some of the harshness, the sharp distorted sibilance is still prominent and drills my head.
So I found out a nice fact… Phone calls only deliver frequencies up to 3.3Khz. Phone calls through this process have been very forgiving on my ears. Perhaps the only way I can communicate with ease.
So I used the EQ to drastically reduce (around 20dB or more) high treble frequencies, but keep lower treble normal (2-3Khz). I then apply a big boost at around 1.5Khz, which is upper midrange. In addition boosted the midrange, around 400Hz,which is the area of fundamental voice frequencies.
The result is a muffled speech but fully understandable, the sharp sibilance is not only reduced but fades quite a bit because of the dominance the EQ is giving to the lower voice frequencies (400Hz & 1.5Khz).
So this works quite well on my headphones. But what about my speakers?
Well, I got a decide called MiniDSP 2x4 HD. This small device allows full control of a stereo system and includes a vast Parametric EQ.
I haven’t set it up yet, but if I can get a similar result to my headphones EQ, then we’ve got a breakthrough.
This does not solve the problem at its core, but if this allows me to have some comfort in my digital life, I’m all in.
The problem is not as severe in real life interaction anyway. It’s bad, but i wouldn’t call it torture.
I will report back as soon as I get the time to setup my MiniDSP.
Cheers to you all.

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#44

@yuvalfrr, as I was reading responses I was thinking about trying a parametric EQ. I’m glad you know what it is. Here’s an idea: Maybe buy a used fully parametric EQ on a used equipment website. Even an old one should do fine.
Hook up the EQ between your computer sound output and your headphones. Maybe use Google to find an online tone generator or find a TED talk on YouTube. Use the parametric EQ to find the frequency range that triggers your distorted sibilance and gradually tighten the bandwidth of the EQ band around the offending frequency. Also move the EQ band around. The idea is to find the exact frequency where the distortion happens, or at least the narrowest frequency range that includes the offending frequency.
You also might try a notch filter. I think you can probably buy one of those used. Same idea: Trying to find the narrowest frequency band you can that contains the offending frequency.
Here’s a link to an article by a prominent American audiologist named Marshall Chasin. It is about treating diplacusis. It has a humorous tone to it, and it is not directly related to your problem, but it might give you some insight.

Once you identify the narrowest band that contains the offending frequency, try out one or a pair of HAs, whichever is appropriate. Get some HAs that will occlude your ears.Have the audiologist boost the amplification up to a level that approximates what your normal hearing would be if not for the occlusion. BUT, have the audi drastically CUT the amplification at, or as near to as possible, the narrow offending frequency band that you identified with the parametric EQ and/or the notch filter. If the problem is in only one ear, then this only needs to be done in the offending ear.
Sorry for the long post, but the OP has really stuck with the discussion and many respondents seem really interested in the issue, so I posted a response rather than sending a PM. Good luck @yuvalfrr. I hope this might be one piece of your puzzle.

#45

I too thought of Notch Therapy when I read OP’s last post. If it does seem worth a try, Signia and Rexton hearing aids come with it built in. Still doable with others, but perhaps not as straight forward.

#46

Yes! A notch filter seems to be what I’m looking for. Two questions:

  1. What’s the maximum attenuation possible with a notch filter. Most EQs can attenuate up to 10-20dB. Due to the severity of my distortion I could need even a more drastic cut on certain frequencies.
  2. How narrow does the frequency band have to be? I am thinking that my affected frequency range is very wide, covering vast amount of HF. I doubt this can help if all I can cut is for example 8000Hz-8200Hz.
#47

@yuvalfrr, I’d say the first step would be to determine the width of the frequency band where the problem lies. You would have to do some extensive research using your parametric EQ. Another audio tool I just thought of that might help is a pink noise generator (or maybe it’s a white noise generator). If I remember correctly, a pink noise generator generates sound across the entire audio spectrum all at once. You would use the white noise generator to produce that very broad-spectrum sound and then use the parametric EQ to boost or cut at various frequencies as I described previously to see where the problem frequency is and how wide of a frequency band is affected. Then, as MDB suggested, try HAs that allow for notch filtering and have the audi use whatever tools might be available in the programming software to notch out the offending frequencies as best as the HA software programming tools allow.
I’m not an audio expert at all. I used to play in rock bands. The technology I’m describing was available in the early 80s. Undoubtedly it is much better and much cheaper now. If there are experts here reading this post please correct any misconceptions I might have or please expand on my ideas.
I have no idea how much a notch filter might be able to attenuate. There are probably notch filters available that can provide radical attenuation. I’ll bet you can find one if you do some research. Good luck.

#48

I don’t know if this would help or not, but a little while ago Dr Cliuf mentioned new ear plugs from Phonak that were designed for shooting, work etc. I was thinking that the work one should reduce the high frequencies, I don’t know by how much or what other frequencies are reduced as well, but they are supposed to still allow you to talk to people. Maybe if you get in touch with a Phonak rep or an audiologist who knows Phonak products very well, that maybe they can shed some light on what’s available. Just my 2 cents worth, and that might be overly inflated. :grinning:.
Definitely a unique problem.

#49

I don’t want to sound like I’m peeved or anything (he said peevishly) but I think what you people have been calling ‘notch therapy’ is what I’ve been suggesting all along with the Nuhearas. “Attenuation” (correct me if I’m wrong) is only limited by the isolation of the device. You amplify the frequencies around the ‘notch’ and leave the notch alone. Whether this is a desirable thing to do is another question. I mentioned the Nuheara becaude it’s cheap enough to experiment with, it’s self-programmable, it’s got good isolation, and you can balance streamed sound with what the microphones pick up.

'm not sure what the goal is here e[ther. Therapy or relief? Different things.

#50

Yes that’s my understanding of what notch therapy is. Leave the notch alone and amplify around it. Have no idea if it would be beneficial.

#51

The Nuheras buds might not fit the bill. As far as I understand they allow you to apply a tone control. You can reduce bass/treble. General treble reduction is not a good idea, since I have problem in certain frequencies and not the entire treble spectrum. From my experience even destroying the treble making everything dull, dead, muffled, doesn’t cut it, because it reduces the entire treble range, lowering a moderate amount throughout the spectrum, each frequency a certain dB cut. Thus not applying a heavy enough cut to those problematic frequencies. The result is a terrible sound profile that doesn’t even do a good job at smoothening out the distortion.
If notch therapy just amplifies around a certain range then that’s no good either. I need heavy attenuation to certain frequencies and then amplify my healthy frequencies around the problematic range.
The only thing I am really curious about is frequency lowering/shifting.

#52

If used with fairly occlusive earpieces, the earpieces provide the attenuation and then the hearing aids can provide gain whereever it’s needed. I’m skeptical about frequency lowering in that it often generates the sibilance you are trying to eliminate.

#53

Through all these suggestions and observations, I think those that make sense are the ones regarding consultation with a neurologist. My recommendation is that you schedule a neurological evaluation ASAP to rule out any abnormal intracranial condition. Don’t waste time and money on devices. Find out what is causing these strange symptoms.

#54

Looks like you’re right. I checked the manual and from what I can see they haven’t exposed controls for each individual frequency band. I was sure they had. Sorry for the misinformation.

#55

So far devices have saved me. I use different hearing non-electronic devices from Flare Audio (I use Calmer, Calmer Night, and earHD 360), as well as Noise Cancelling Sony Headphones (focusing on non-vocal music due to my sibilance issue). If I didn’t have these things I would jump off a cliff long ago. My situation to me is a 10/10 in torture level. These devices take it down to 8. If I find the right device to help me further and I could drop torture down to 5-6 I will be very happy.

I will schedule a neurologist, but waiting time is ridiculous and then three is further waiting for any scans he might send me to.
Am I supposed to bite my tongue and suffer 100% of the problem for the next months?

Besides, I’ll be honest. There’s no frickin chance anything will be found. You guys may think differently but I feel the medical system is much more helpless than people believe.

Maybe in the USA the rich can find great and innovative care, but here health care is subpar to say the least. However I pay around $30 a month and get quite good coverage. But the level of care and Dr’s knowledge is lacking here.

#56

Yes, I have some idea of what you are going through. This will probably go long so excuse me for that. I have also seen 3 ENTs but I am older then you and I have mild to moderate hearing lose. I describe what you are hearing as the broken speaker effect. This is probably some static-like crackling as certain frequencies and as things get louder this effect gets worse. This is due to nerve damage which has messed up the way the nerves in your ears transfer the message to the brain. The first ENT I saw sent me to get an MRI. They do this to see if there is something physical that is causing the hearing issue. Mostly they are looking for small tumors or cysts that may be putting pressure on the ear. These are not generally life threatening but mine was clear. They tried to sell me hearing aids. The next ENT I saw put me on a round of very strong antiviral pills. They do this as sometimes viruses can cause hearing damage. I lost the hearing in my left ear 20 years ago but took ENT prescribed medicine and it came back, but was never quite the same and the worst ear for this static-like crackling is that ear. This antiviral did not do anything either. The third ENT I saw said that I had nerve damage and although there is research being done there is no treatment. He said I needed hearing aids but sometimes they may make my condition seem worse. What that means is that hearing aids may enhance the very frequencies that are causing the irritating sound in your ears. So my advice to you, if you do not have hearing loss then don’t bother with hearing aids.
Do not use conventional ear plugs that will make it hard for you to hear. However, I recommend musicians ear plugs. These are used a lot by musicians and people that just one to protect their ears by reducing the dbs or volume they are hearing. These earplugs let you hear the music or movie or concert but take the volume down somewhat. Before Covid, I had done 3 musicals and the only way I could have done this is by wearing these plugs. I recommend Downbeats and EarDials. You can get these on Amazon for 15 to 30 dollars. I have both. They are clear and small so they don’t stick out so obviously, and you will still be able to hear those training videos with reduced distortion. Some people mentioned the Nuheara ear buds. I looked at these but they are rather large to have in your ears all day.
There are Tinnitus treating apps available in the Apple app store. I own the app, Tinnitus HQ. The paid version will cost you 14.95. This is filled with all kinds of masking sounds like rain, oceans and music. More importantly, It has a feature that allows you to focus in on the frequency range that is causing your issue and treat that issue with a masking sounds that works for you from the library of sounds that come with the app. I use this through my hearing aids but I am sure it would work with some earbuds or headphones. I recommend the Jabra 75T ear buds as they have an app that uses a variable equalizer that you can use the custom fit the sound.
Some general advice. If you ever get hearing aids do not allow the fitter or Audiologist to start you at anything higher the 70% of target. A 100% of Target is the optimum based on the hearing test - audiogram. People like us cannot stand to be at 100% but some Audiologist don’t get it and they will probably start you at about 90% to begin with. You will probably end up taking them back because they did not listen to you and the aids sound like crap. People like us will most likely never be above 80% of target but this still helps a lot if you have hearing loss. I go to Costco because the Senior fitter there listens to me and we come to a compromise that works, but isn’t optimal because I cannot take that. I am trying some Resound Jabra enhanced aids and half the reason I use Resound is that the app I use with them is the best hearing aid app for people that need to manually adjust their hearing aids to their issue.
Like you I have no problem with instrumental music except high percussion such as snare drums or cymbals. If I want to listen to vocal music through my stereo speakers I use a Loki equalizer which is a small box with 4 dials you tie into your system and it takes the edge off of those vocals so you can listen to them. Also found on Amazon. My problem is with upper vocals like high women’s voices and children’s voices. If you get all the women in my family together it is static city. You might want to look at these frequencies for your problem. You seem to be looking at very high frequencies for your issue. You know what you hearing but I am just throwing that out as an option. I hope things improve for you and if I come on anything else I will post it.

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#57

Dear Rick, thank you so much for your long reply. I am saddened by your problem but some what I am not the only one suffering from something like this. Yes, the problem is MUCH worse with female vocals. Some males have tremendous amounts of HF energy in their speech, and unforgiving sibilance, but the problem is much more prominent in female vocals. They just tend to reach higher frequencies with their sharp sibilance.
I have given up hearing aids or the Nuhera. They just don’t fit the bill. They aren’t for my condition. No DR will give them to me, and I am not happy spending thousands of dollars for a possibly useless device (for my situation) plus having someone in my ears all day might be a lose-lose situation.
SOME GOOD NEWS…my situation has improved , I can’t explain by how much, but I feel that I am tortured slightly less, say 1-2 dials down on level of sufferance.
So what could be the reason for this relief? two possible ones:

  1. I have a new incredible job I have waited for more than a decade. I feel more productive and accomploished, directly inflencing my stresss levels. I work many more hours but the good feeling of enjoying your work causes me to be calmer because of work rather than more stressed. I feel my tinnitus has reduced in volume, this must be connected somehow to my sibilance problem because my tinnitus is in that 6,7,8khz range and i do hear some crackling in my tinnitus tone. it is not a smooth HF sound but rather somewhat distorted in my brain. But I’ve had my tinnitus go down before , it has never given me any relief from sibilance.
  2. For the past 5+ years I’ve had diagnosed and severe Vitamin D deficiency. I’ve started taking Vitamin D supplements. I remember months ago I felt like my hearing has somewhat improved. The only explanation was the D. For some reason, because I an a procrastinator and sometimes irresponsible I did not continue taking D properly (every day, with a good meal, taken with fat) and kind of lost touch with it. I’ve begun taking D again as instructed about a week ago and that’s when things started to improve.
    I hope this is the sign of further improvement and I don’t really care what has caused this slight but significant relief , I’ll take D for the rest of my life if I have to even if it’s not what’s improving the situation. Hell give me A,B,C,E I’ll take em all.
    BTW, the only explanation I have for possible D-induced relief is that it is incharge of our bones and the tiniest bones in our body is located in the ears. I have read very few articles about Vitamin D and hearing quality. But research is being done.
    Anyway, just thought I should update, and thank you for sharing your condition with me.
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#58

I experience this to some degree without HAs. Even though I have lost the high end of my hearing, certain high pitched sounds are shrill and annoying like children’s voices, beepers, air leaks, etc. Not that I didn’t find them annoying when I didn’t have loss, they are much more so now. I tend to avoid situations where I encounter them.

#59

Hi sorry to hear about your problem Vitamin D deficiency can cause serious problems and can cause hearing loss and deafness from what i have heared so it is always a good idea to keep taking the vitamin d everyday as it can help prevent some of the problems that vitamin d deficiency can cause not only related to hearing i hope that your problem gets better for you

#60

Hi,

I’m happy to say I’ve been experiencing a break through. I don’t know if it’s stress refuction/better mood/better sleep, or simply vitamin D deficiency. But something is working.
I haven’t heard this well for a year. Sibilance can still get sharp, but my brain isn’t poked with metal sticks. What a relief. You guys are great. Thank you all

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