Paradise vs marvels, my final choice

Nope, paradises 13T. They do have a bit better handling of noisy environment, at least from what my brain perceived (compared to marvels). Tiny bit, but when screaming kid in a bus didn’t pierce my brain as it happen before, that was something I’ve noticed and liked.

Also, with soft speech in quiet I noticed the difference, they managed to distinct a bit better than marvels between soft noise and soft potentially useful sounds. I have suppression of soft noise at maximum (so no more that static) but sounds I allow to significant degree (with good ear I had to reduce it a bit since I could hear too much, eg was too much emphasized, but bad ear and soft sounds on max works fine).

And when I manage to finally convince them to connect, having two connections at once comes in handy.

Also I noticed that if I don’t do anything at all, they’ll automagically connect.

Like, I just turn them on, be around my phone, they connect. Then I open my laptop and after a while I notice they’ve connected. So that’s an approach that currently works for me.

But for ‘connect now’ approach they aren’t cooperating much :joy:. Rechargeables are more responsive in that regard with same issues about connecting with the app - first week they were really faster than 13 version, but after that, same thing - wait, get error, retry, wait, finally connected.

My current hypothesis is that it might have something with me not shutting down the phone at all. I think it might restart automatically sometime, but have to check.

Also, for my setup and loss, I didn’t get anything noticeable from motion sensor hearing, so I happily abandoned rechargeable idea :slight_smile: since I can be more patient for 500 eur difference.

Or better said, paradises 13 are 200eur more expensive than marvels - noise and 2 devices were worth to me that price difference plus possibility of some upgrading in the future, but further 500 eur for zero noticeable improvement in the hearing area wasn’t.

For pausing streaming I have to train myself that I have watch that can do that anyway. And that two taps weren’t that nice either since I wear glasses. Sensor isn’t that sensitive so it needed significant tap and basically only in dedicated area, which wasn’t that comfortable for me.

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Your choice seems eminently reasonable. I trialed the Marvels and purchased the P90R. For my cases I find little to fault. For BT functionality, I lay the blame on the source component configuration and hardware more often than Phonak. For Android phone connections-flawless. For a streaming Windows workstation-flawless. For TV connector flawless–unless I get a phone notification during the use of the connector and then in 10% of the cases the HA remains on Autosense 4.0 after the notification is cleared. Since Streaming is the next program in the HA program stack it takes one long press to step to that program. The program designer gives precedence to a phone notification. I would likely make the same choice in their shoes. I do think the return to the TV Connector signal could be polished a bit. This could well be user error in that I am not clearing the notification in a consistent manner. I will take delivery on Monday of custom molds that will improve the interface with my ear. That will be welcome but I know in advance it is a bit of an art and trial and error. But worth it in my case for the long haul. Best wishes going forward.

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After I read the helpful link from @d_Wooluf multipoint BT, yeah, I see that’s BT’s ‘feature’ and not Phonak’s ‘fault’.
Also, I think this thread is worth reading to understand a bit more about BT behaviour.

I have android phone and linux laptop (Fedora).

About TV connector, sometimes I remember to turn off media stream from the phone or just completely disconnnect the aids, so no notifications can come through and mess things up :smiley:

I have 4 custom programs for experimenting / checking, so it’s 5 long clicks from autosense to streaming (since I have manual streaming on), but I went with a suggestion to change button functionality - I removed option for volume control from the aid button, and now program change is on short click, and it really is fast.

Of course, now I started noticing how loud some programs are and I have need for volume control :rofl:

It’s not perfect tech, and definitely needs me to adopt to it and find out its quirks. However, hearing experience I get (from both) is definitely worth the ‘trouble’ of adapting to the quirks.

Likewise :slight_smile:
I believe we’ll keep sharing here our findings :slight_smile:

However, I wouldn’t recommend paradises at this moment to anyone not ready to handle the quirks, it took me a ton of hours to understand what’s going on, and people usually don’t have such patience or desire to dig it up. I mean, I’d also like it to ‘just work’, but tech isn’t quite there yet. And I doubt it’ll come, I expect BT LE audio will take it over. And hopefully, solve all of these issues. I just don’t have time to wait for it, since I need good HAs now.

Marvels behave more predictable. That’s what I shared with my fitter as well, as final review.
From hearing help standpoint they are really similar. I had to be really intentional and tune in to perceive those few differences.

Maybe some firmware updates in the future will change something for paradises, but based on that info about BT, I’m not putting too much hope in it being even possible.
Unless they give us some ‘order of preference for connection’ or something along those lines.
Or that app becomes more aggressive in asking for connection / HAs more compliant with parallel requests (eg if you’re streaming eg using BT chip, then you want app to connect, it takes quite a time).
But, it could also be my phone.

Too many variables to really be sure about what’s going on.

“Too many variables to really be sure about what’s going on.”

Amen!

Fortunately, or unfortunately, Paradise expanded BT functionality and that brought along a decrease in predictability. It is built into the evolutionary process. I maintain a technical dialog with a CEO developing environmental sensors. Early on I told him my holy grail was “it just works.” Two years in and we are maybe a bit closer. Maybe. So we depend on human flexibility to make it work. Here, there, everywhere. Ciao.

@MDB just to tag you since I answered your question here :slight_smile:

I’m trying the Paradise P90RTs right now also. I’m very technical and worry about the bugs. For example, every time I change the equalizer it seems to default back to it’s original setting without me doing anything. It’s very annoying. I also don’t know if I want to deal with the rechargeable side of things in case there are days where I stream a ton. It’s nice to know that you don’t think the motion sensor makes a difference.

I may just go back to the Widex Moment 440 which were my original trial. I’ve only had Widex in the past and am using this new experience to try Widex, Oticon, Phonak and possibly Starkey.

Have any of you tried the Starkey Livio Edge AI?

Keep in mind, for my loss - low frequency and using open domes.
I suspect that open domes themselves could be the reason why I don’t feel the difference.

any/all new HAs require tweeks and adjustments and it may take some time to get bugs worked out. But, I am a big fan of Phonak and believe that every time they do upgrades or release a new aid it is an improvement - they do not go backwards. So, I believe Marvels are better than ones that came before, Paradise better than Marvels (but, only a little) and next years new model will be even better. If price is a big issue for you - I’m sorry.

I expect that next generation will have something significantly different from marvels. Paradises in my eyes aren’t that big difference.

I don’t know which one I tried several years ago, but I just remember it was so bad that I pulled them out of my ears, I only remembered it was phonak :joy: widex dream and some oticon were bearable on ‘first fit by manufacturer’, oticon being useless for speech comprehension after tweaking, widex showed some success.

So, phonak definitely came a long way :smiley:

I don’t think that, at least for now, they expect us to upgrade with each generation, but more like every third. And someone who is now having belong, when they try the ones after paradise, I’d expect they’ll get bunch of valuable things in it.

Paradise is going to be around for two years, so I wouldn’t get my hope up that - that brand is going to be replaced until late 2023. At least Phonak keeps putting out new HA every two/two 1/2 years where other manufactures seem to be sitting on their hands.

Need some help here. When was the release date for the Marvel in the U.S? I see that the phonak Marvel Naida Sp was released in Jan 2020. Someone correct me here. But did not Phonak release the Marvel in 2019 and then release the Paradise in 2020. That is only a year apart for a new software upgrade with their HA. The point I’m getting at is the Phonak has in the past released new HA software every two years.

Phonak Audeo (RIC) Marvel was announced in October of 2018.

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I have been demo’ing Phonak Paradise. Had to turn the “tap” feature off because when I take glasses on and off it would call up Siri!!

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I’m finding that I’m more annoyed with Siri than anything. But I love the ability to tap and have it stop my streaming video instead of taking out my phone.

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You can turn off the tap feature that calls up Siri/alexa/google assist.

@zuikoholic Thanks! I do know that but am hoping I get better at controlling it and that I find a valuable use case.

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I must say that I didn’t find a purpose for voice assistants in my life. I looked into what they can when I was trialling P90R but didn’t find anything useful they could do for me. Maybe because I like doing things in silence but maybe also because phone is always near me unless I’m doing something engaging but then I don’t see what I’d want from assistants either.

I’m ondering, what do you and others use them for?

I think if you turn “tap” off you can press the BUTTON and do the same thing – - that is how I answer phone now.

One has to wonder if tapping a hearing aid continually over a two, three, four year period is good for circuitry inside. I mean do I really want to keep taping my aid knowing I might do some damage to internal parts over an extended period of time? Or maybe dislodge HA wire? But then again no need to worry if you have long hair that covers your aid. Hard to tap something with hair in the way.

Because of COVID my hair is longer that it has been in decades. I find it much easier to tap than to press the hearing aid buttons when I have long hair.

Jim