Oticon Xceed great for speech, not for music

Hearing Aids
#1

My wife was fitted with the Xceed 1UP and cros yesterday and is very happy with the sound of speech. It is both louder and sharper than with her Phonak Naida Q 90 UP which she has had for five years. Also, the feedback control is much better.

I purchased an iPhone 7 and paired it with the Xceed, but unfortunately she says the sound is very bad. (I was worried it wouldn’t be loud enough, but it is.) She says it doesn’t sound like music. (I’ve also tried all the different EQ settings on the iPhone. doesn’t help at all.)I’ve been trying to figure this out. I listened with headphones to the iPhone and the sound is great. I also listened to music through her hearing aid on all four programs that she has (this includes one tele-coil). It sounds fine to me on the speech programs but the tele-coil program sounds distorted.

She also tried listening to music through tele-coil and she says that sound is bad also. She previously was listening with the Phonak tele-coil with her head right next to a speaker and the sound was acceptable. She has approximately 115 to 120 DB loss at all frequencies. (she has also tried listening with just the speech programs to a speaker. Sound still bad.)

I have been doing some adjusting of her programs myself on the Phonak, and I noticed that for Bluetooth (which was only available with the ComPilot — which provided poor quality sound) there were two options: Bluetooth audio, and Bluetooth phone. Is it possible in the Oticon that there is another program that would be specifically for music? Frankly, our provider was not very knowledgeable or helpful in this regard.

One question is does the Bluetooth streaming from the iPhone have a separate program that overrides the other programs? And can that be adjusted independently?

We also noticed that it’s possible to acquire a Direct Audio Input. Is there any reason to believe the sound would be any better with this device? Could she still use the phone for music with the headphone adapter cord? (I would think so.)

Or is there anything else anyone could suggest to help her with music better that we could tell to the provider for her next follow-up? I have downloaded the Genie 2 fitting software that I haven’t yet purchased a means to connect (I used the Ícube for the Phonak). Presumably by manipulating every channel I could make it sound like the Phonak. I doubt the provider would have the patience or interest.

My experience with Oticon Xceed 2 demo
#2

all hearing aids are created to hopeful help with speech, and as the more power is needed for speech the less likely that music is going to be easy to understand.

#3

Put simply she needs to have the audiologist ’tune’ the music program.

Assuming she has sealed moulds, there shouldn’t be any discernible difference between streamed music and the way she hears it normally.

I’m guessing here, but looking at the Audiogram in your profile, she probably needs to have the whole lot turned up and ALL of the MPO and Feedback management turned off (for the streaming program). The reason music usually sounds duff is that the in built compression of the aid walks over the dynamic range of the music signal.

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#4

First, IS the streaming program a separate program? When I went through listening myself I could tell the tele-coil sound was distorted, so it seemed like the streaming was going through the programs already in the hearing aid.

She’s virtually maxed out already. The provider said the sound could be raised some at the lower frequencies. But this is the same thing as with the Phonak. When I tried to raise those lower frequencies she didn’t like it.

This is a homemade mold from three earplugs which I discussed previously in this forum because what audiologists made for her had too much feedback. The latest one wasn’t quite sufficient for the Phonak but with the Oticon’s better feedback control there hasn’t been any… On the Phonak, on the tele-coil I turned off all the feedback control— the whistle block — but I worry if this is turned off on the Oticon then there will be feedback. and using it with the tele-coil there will be distortion.

I actually found with the Phonak tele-coil there was distortion which I solved by lowering its volume about 6 dB.

I did send an email to Oticon regarding all of this. Hopefully they will be of some help because I don’t trust the provider in the slightest. I imagine it will take immense patience to tune music, which I know our provider lacks. We got the AIDS through True Hearing, which Dr. Cliff Olson says doesn’t pay enough for him to make enough money and still do a good job.

Thanks for your input. Her current audiogram is about 5 dB below what is posted.

#5

Forget the telecoil, it’s pointless in terms of clarity. The impedance of the coil could be massively different than the impedance of the receiving coil.

I’m talking about streaming: the provider should have access to the controls for sound in as streamed through the aid using Mfi.

#6

Oticon won’t be able to resolve this. It needs to be resolved at the audiologist level.

You paid money for something, you need to be able to use it properly. In this country you can’t fire and forget product like that, I’m not sure what your state says, but there’s an obligation on your audiologist to do the job properly.

#7

I have marvel naidas and I love the quality of the streamed music. Did not like the oticon or the resound and the streaming was one of the reasons

#8

Thanks for detailed report on Xceed. Thery have been few and in between.

When someone has profound hearing loss such as your wife, you can’t expect a hearing aid to excel in all areas of performance. As HT survey showed - HA users rank “hearing in quiet” with a level 3 ranking. So if you wife hears speech better/sharper with the Xceed, that’s a big plus. Of course you don’t mention how she handles speech in noise?

A little confused here. Are you saying with the iPhone 7 your wife can hear verbal commuincation fine but the issue is streaming music? Hearing aids many times don’t do well with music, but things should improve some what with an Audi doing adjustments. Hopefully its just music she has issues with versus not hearing normal conversation over her iPhone?

I’m no expert but a tele-coil should not be used to hear music. Now if you you’re listening to a concert or sitting in a classroom telecoil systems might stream the most important sound directly into your ears via your hearing aids. Using a telecoil with a loop system can improve the sound quality in situations with a lot of background noise. They’ might also be good for when you’re sitting far away from the sound you want to hear – like in a church or lecture. But I personally would not expect the tele-coil function to do well with incoming music.

Lastly - you mention in a post "this is a homemade mold from three earplugs which I discussed previously in this forum because what audiologists made for her had too much feedback? I assuming you have some hands on experience dealing with ear molds, but I’d be very leery trying to make a homemade mold for a power hearing aid. You could have short term and long term problems with a homemade mold, if the mold doesn’t fit properly, Vented or not. I did not read your previous post on this matter but I would assume you would void your 3 or 4 year warranty on a new hearing aid - if you decided to make your own custom molds.

On a side note: True Hearing has gotten lots of bad reviews over the years and I believe there is extremely high turn over in staff. So I understand you delimma trying to find the right aid adjustments for wife’s hearing aids, when True Hearing aid specialists might not have the training or the experience to get things right the first, second or third time.

Good Luck

#9

First, my wife has profound sensorineural and conductive loss. Her left side there is actually less loss decibel wise but it’s just a jumble of sound ever since she had a stapedectomy in 1976 . Five years ago her discrimination In her good ear was 40%. Three weeks ago it was 0%. She understands nothing without reading lips so talking on the phone is impossible. I just had her do a test with the new Oticon to see if she could understand me with her eyes closed. No. But still, combined with lipreading, it is significantly better than the Phonak.

After getting the aid yesterday she did grocery shopping while I was doing other errands but she doesn’t remember how the sound was. But with everybody wearing the stupid masks she wouldn’t understand a word anybody said. Most likely, for most people, the exceed would do well in noisy situations.

As I think I said, the reason why she uses tele-coil for music is because there’s no feedback. And the whistle block program in Phonak diminishes music quality, as others have noticed. But the program she’s using an Target says TV via tele-coil. So it should be for music.

Someone else at this forum said that they thought music was great with exceed.

No one ever mentioned the homemade mold voiding the warranty. This is the same provider weused five years ago and it wasn’t through True Hearing then. She has used four different providers over the years and I never liked any of them. That’s why started programming the Phonak myself, after having the audiologist to the initial set up.

We had been hoping Phonak would put out a Naida UP that would stream music. Supposedly they are working on this — our provider just talked with them though and they said it won’t be for a while, probably in the Paradise line. That’s why we went with the Oticon.

Her current Phonak Naida Q has been having issues — from time to time it just won’t start up. Opening and re-closing the battery door usually cures this, but one time it took about 10 tries. So it may be on its last legs — another reason to get a new hearing aid.

#10

see my long reply below. We will certainly get the provider to do everything possible but I have little faith in him.

#11

Phil, With your wife’s hearing loss, I am surprised she hears music at all. My hearing loss is similar to hers. I can no longer hear on the phone. I haven’t been able to hear music in ages. I currently wear Oticon Dynamo’s. And I sympathize with her and so many others here with the face mask issue. It is terrible. Most business’s I deal with are very nice in respect with if they need to ask me a question they will back up , pull their mask down, ask the question and then replace their mask. I have been to a few where they refused to pull down the mask, so I just leave and take my business elsewhere.

#12

I don’t have target open for your aids, but check if you can completely switch off HA mics for bt streaming programs?
If mics are off, there is no source for feedback.
In marvel I know I can lower them but I forgot if I can sit them off. In app I can focus more on streaming but I don’t know if that completely turns off mics.

DAI shoe from what I understand is the best way to get the music/input in, you probably have to activate the program for it but it’s hardware plug in.

I was looking into that when I was trying to understand how roger receiver works since it can be connected through dai shoe. And saw ‘headphone adapter’ which basically connects 3.5 jack directly with aids.

I was tempted to try that just to see, but then I’ve realised that dai shoes are only available on big aids.

I would definitely look into that before suffering through adjusting feedback and such.

#13

the only Bluetooth for the Naida Q is via the ComPilot. I do have the mics turned off for that, but it is not loud enough and the sound quality is bad. Actually, now that she has the Oticon for speech (until or if solving the music problem with it) I plan to tape over the microphones of the Phonak so she has no feedback, disabled the whistle block, and then have her try listening, comparing it to the tele-coil. Her previous hearing aid, the Phonak Supero , did have a boot she could plug in audio input but I didn’t think that was available for the Naida Q. If we can’t fix the Oticon music I will look into that. Maybe Phonak doesn’t tell you about that because they want you to buy the Roger Pen for big bucks.

#14

Naida Q has DAI feature. You just need to change the battery doors.

#15

thanks! will look into that if the above fails. But I also want her to be able to listen to music when I’m driving and there’s no direct audio input there. Although I could rig it up.

#16

Boy this is becoming a “home project”. Good luck

and “this is a homemade mold from three earplugs which I discussed previously”

Seems to me you could be creating more problems then you’re fixing with tape and homemade mold and who knows what next. Since your so “hands on” I doubt you and your True Hearing specialist will see eye to eye on how to program a hearing aid.

1 Like
#17

I just read your posts on another thread. I’m not clear if you tried the exceed or if you tried cochlear implants. Everything I’ve read about the latter is that they are bad for music.

I have spent a huge amount of time doing everything I can to help my wife hear music. I’m a classical pianist myself and the greatest music of Bach, Beethoven and Schubert is profoundly important for both our spiritual lives. The current set up which she listens to with the Phonak – because I blew out headphones and a normal speakers trying to get them loud enough — is by mounting a powerful car speaker in the big box of the normal speaker, sticking an additional preamp in-line with the regular amplifier, and then she puts her head right next to the speaker. I’ve done essentially the same thing in our truck. I’d be happy to provide you with more detail if you want to try anything like that.

I just found this in physicist Brian Greene’s new book Until the End of Time (not great): "Music has a remarkable power to create such profound connection . . . A moving description comes from Helen Keller who [when Beethoven’s ninth was played over the radio] placed her hands on the diaphragm of an uncovered radio speaker and through the vibrations was able to sense the music, to experience what she called the “immortal Symphony,” even distinguish individual instruments. [She said] “When the human voice leapt up trilling from the surge of harmony, I recognized them instantly as voices. I felt the chorus grow more exultant, more ecstatic, upcurving swift and flame like, until my heart almost stood still”.

And then, speaking to sounds that touch the spirit, music that reverberates to eternity, she concludes: “as I listened, with darkness and melody, shadow and sound filling all the room, I could not help remembering that the great composer who poured forth such a flood of sweetness into the world was deaf like myself. I marveled at the power of his quenchless Spirit by which out of his pain he brought such joy for others — and there I sat, feeling with my hand the magnificent Symphony which broke like a sea upon the silent shores of his soul and mine.” [makes me weep just to write this.]

#18

see below. And Laura’s comments here and on all the threads. As I’ve written elsewhere, I don’t know where I’d be, if I’d be if it weren’t for the greatest music of Bach, Beethoven, and Schubert. So I do everything possible to help my life hear these incomparable, infinitely spiritually profound works.

#19

I apologize if I missed some of your comments on earmolds. Seems I remember other threads in the past you talking about different molds and how they helped or didn’t help, not sure.

Molds are critical for so many reasons. Especially when dealing with severe/profound hearing losses. To really get the gain out of a set of aids the molds must be right. From my understanding your wife needs to be in soft silicone molds. They seal better than other types of molds. Lloyd’s can help you with this. You are familiar with Phonak, have you considered the Marvel Naida SP aids? If fit properly they should cover your wife’s hearing loss.

Good luck

#20

I’m afraid we’ve been through this before. The SPs won’t be loud enough. the exceed is great for speech – she is going to keep it. Others have posted here that the exceed is much better than the Naida B UP. But if Naida comes out in the Paradise line, who knows. As I posted above Phonak is working on it but has no idea when

Did you get your cochlear implants? I was researching that more and they don’t always work for people with sensorineural damage which my wife has. If the nerves are bad there’s nothing you can do. but, according to my research, there’s no way to know ahead of time.
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