#41

Ideally you should not need to change programs very often.

#42

I do not even have any extra programs, what I do change is to the TV Adapter and sometimes to the external microphone on either the connect clip or the iPhone.

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#43

@prodigyplace: Yes, it does. I have a DSL v5(a) program, Speech in Noise, (highly recommended), and MyMusic (a bust - gonna remove and add something else like Lecture or whatever it’s called).

[Addendum: I like VAC+ for accurate auscultation of HerSelf®️, but DSL v5 (a.) for critter monitoring … I find it gives greater audibility, but not necessarily intelligibility]

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#44

Thanks for the program recommendation.

#45

It depends on the chemistry of the battery. In the old days, NiCad has the self-discharge and memory issue. Then the original NiMH version came along and solved the memory issue somewhat, but still has the self-discharge issue. Then the newly revised chemistry of NiMH introduced by Enerloop solved the self-discharge issue as well along with the memory issue.

The Li-ion battery chemistry does not have a self-discharge issue like the NiCad or the original NiMH batteries, at least not enough to be a primary drain like you think. Its self discharge rate is only around 1.5-2% a month, or roughly 20% a year. The revised NiMH chemistry (like the Enerloop and such) also has about this same self-discharged rate, by the way.

So let’s say if you could take the battery out of the SmartCharger (which you can’t) and just store that battery UNCONNECTED from the SmartCharger, you most likely won’t need to do the every-6-month recharge like Oticon tells you to. But because the SmartCharger battery is PERMANENTLY connected to the SmartCharger, it is ALWAYS actively driving the circuitries inside the SmartCharger. When the SmartCharger is not actively being drained when charging the More loads, it probably goes into some kind of standby mode to save battery drain. But this standby mode does not COMPLETELY cut off the drain on the battery like a full physical disconnect can do. This standby mode minimizes the battery drain, but a small leakage drain through the circuitries is still unavoidable in order to maintain the standby mode. The SmartCharger is not dead, it’s only sleeping. And a small amount of energy is still required in sleep mode.

Over the period of 6 months, this is likely the primary drain.

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#46

@Volusiano: Thank you for this revealing and insightful explanation. (I have started to play Brahm’s Lullabye to my original Oticon®️ brand SmartCharger™️ in order to promote a salubrious, battery-saving sleep mode.)

#47

In my description, “wireless “ is the HAs to charger.

Both the Standard and the Smart charger bases are wired to a power source.

At no time have I tried to charge my HAs off the Smart charger portable method.

Not until I can see it working plugged to the wall.

#48

But why? The SmartCharger is designed to operate unplugged …,that’s its purpose in life!

What are you going to prove/learn by operating it plugged into the wall? I just fail to grasp your logic.

#49

I agree with @SpudGunner here. The first and foremost test would be to see if it works when NOT plugged into the wall and using its own internal battery. Only after then would I care whether it works plugged into the wall to charge itself and possible charge the aids at the same time.

It’s not to say that the later test is not important, but it only becomes relevant and important after it passes the earlier test with flying colors first.

Eventually you want to do both tests anyway. But if you prioritized the unplugged test first, you can ignore the second test and save time if the first test doesn’t pass. But with your order of testing, you won’t find out that the second (more important) test is bad until you already waste your time doing the first (less important) test.

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#50

@Volusiano: Exactly, MrV … Exactly!

#51

What I am trying to find out is simply, will this new Smart charger give me a full charge and a 16 hour use.

Or are my HAs damaged and the HA batteries will not take a 16 hour chart.

Two days into my test I have a clue. My More HAs are taking and holding a 16 hour charge, using the Standard charger.

Today, my buddy using my Smart charger plugged into the wall only got 12 hours.

We find that interesting.

One day left.

#52

Not sure what your hearing loss is or how much streaming you and your friend does. I use the smart charger with t plugged into the wall charger and I get well over 16 hours with 2 hours of streaming the TV Adapter and about an hour of streaming audiobooks and and maybe a half hour of calls each day. I have severe hearing loss and my aids are set to my full prescription and possibly even a little more.

#53

@6b7958d1addc9d4c3949: Yes, but his hearing aids are not your hearing aids, and his batteries are not representative in any way of your batteries … you’re supposed to be an engineer! How come you find this simple truth so difficult?

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#54

OK, so you’re beginning to find out that the SmartCharger is not charging neither your aids nor your friend’s aids to their full capacity of at least 16+ hours. So there’s probably something wrong with it.

And you’re also finding out through your friend’s standard/regular charger that your aids can hold 16 hours or more with it → your aids are probably fine, again pointing to the clue that it’s the SmartCharger that’s bad.

I understand what you’re trying to do. But you’re still making a lot of assumptions here that may or may not be true, specifically that your aids and your friend’s aids are fully working as expected, and that both of your usages are the almost same. If you’re lucky and the assumptions hold true, then the result may be black and white. But if your assumptions don’t hold true, then the results could have been muddier than mud.

The burden should have been on your HCP to fix all the issues for you, instead of you trying to do experiments with your friend. But of course that’s your prerogative. If I don’t get a whole 16+ hours charge from the SmartCharger, I would simply have sent it back to my HCP and demand a different one. If I still get less than 16+ hours on the second one, then I’d probably ask for a standard charger loaner to try out (like how you swap with your friend’s here). If even the standard charger doesn’t give me 16+ run time, then I’d ask to replace the aids with new ones.

The bottom line is that if you borrow your friend’s standard charger instead of getting a loaner from your HCP, that’s fine and is the same thing. The only thing I (and @SpudGunner ) want to caution you is that comparing things just on your aids only is OK because it’s apple to apple on 2 different chargers. But if you start mixing your apple (your aids and your usage) with your friend’s orange (his aids and his usage) together for the comparison, then it’s not exactly very scientific anymore due to the potential different usage patterns and possibly also the potential of your aids and his aids not performing the same way for some reason in the first place. Why would they not perform the same way, assuming that you and him actually have the same usage pattern (although unlikely)? It’s because you and him probably have different hearing losses as well.

3 Likes
#55

@Volusiano: Tou always explain things very clearly, Mr.V. It’s a real talent of yours!

My objective is the same as yours → to see the OP get his issues resolved and a SmartCharger that works right. But the OP’s modi operandi have too many moving parts. The experimental designs are deeply flawed, as you have pointed out, and will cut no ice with Oticon if they push back on repeated requests for new chargers …

I hope this last, very clear explanation of yours sinks in.

1 Like
#56

When plugged into the wall the charger needs to charge the aids and its internal battery. Perhaps that limits the total charge to the aids.
As previously stated, it’s primary design is to charge the aids when disconnected from the wall.

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#57

@prodigyplace: Bruce, this is an excellent observation whose importance heretofore has escaped me. But → it makes logical sense to me: I know that @Volusiano and @jim_lewis have previously explained that having a parasitic charging w (ie. the hearing aids) on top of the primary charging target (ie. the internal battery) screws up the “handshake” that needs to take place between devices and alters the voltages and amperes that the chip negotiates between the two devices.

@Volusiano could explain it better.

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#58

According to page 16 and 17 of the manual as seen below, there is no indication that in the plugged in and charging of both the SmartCharger and the aids in parallel will cause any kind of limitation such as reducing the ability to fully charge the aids.

The 3 LED indicators on the back of the SmartCharger as indicated on page 17 of the first screenshot below are for the battery inside the SmartCharger.

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The second screenshot (page 12 in the manual) shows that each of the aid charging slots inside has its own single LED charging indicator that can be orange and green.

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It’s not really clear how Oticon designed the charging process to be during a plugged in charging situation when both the SmartCharger and the aids need to be charged simultaneously. But according to page 16 above, charging the power bank battery alone can take up to 4 hours, and charging both the power bank battery and the aids together simultaneously can take up to 8 hours.

So apparently they’ve already allotted for extra time to charge both. A depleted power bank battery takes 4 hours, and a pair of depleted aids on top of that apparently can take up to another 4 hours, totaling 8 hours.

But if you look at page 14 below, the normal charging time for a depleted pair of aids should only take 3 hours. If you do the math, 4 hours for the power bank, and 3 hours for the aids here only adds up to 7 hours. Yet on page 16, they allotted a total of 8 (not 7) hours for both.

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The reason I’m pointing this out is that:

  1. There’s every indication based on the conservative math above (8 and not 7 hours) that implies that there should be no limitation for combined simultaneous charging of both the SmartCharger’s power bank battery and the aids together. Both should finish in 8 hours and both should be fully charged.

  2. There’s no indication at all about any kind of limitation explicitly stated in the manual.

So we shouldn’t speculate that there might be any reason to excuse Oticon of anything. We should hold Oticon accountable for the performance as indicated in their manual and demand a replacement SmartCharger that lives up to this stated performance.

3 Likes
#59

@Volusiano: Just to be clear: I don’t believe that either Bruce @prodigyplace or I are accusing Oticon of anything. Quite to the contrary … we are just trying to square previous explanations given with respect to parasitic loads on a charger with the OP’s unusual charge observations.

Thanks for your parsing of the Oticon guidance.

2 Likes
#60

My only comment would be that, in general, it’s not recommended to charge a device at the same time you use it, e.g., your cell phone. It’s a bit more stressful on the battery as you’re heating it two ways, via charging and using its charge simultaneously. IIRC, Apple specifically recommends not doing so for one’s iPhone. So, although HA OEMs may have somewhat allowed for the likelihood that users will do both simultaneously with their HA chargers, one might get a longer battery lifespan out of the charger if you refrain from doing so as much as possible. Besides the heating effect, I vaguely recall that it’s not supposed to be good for battery longevity to be removing and replacing Li-ions from an electrode simultaneously as opposed to just going in one direction at a time, but that may be a spurious, “fake” recollection.

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