I came to this conclusion by comparing images (products + software), similarities in marketing docs etc (and even things like software changelogs match word-for-word), and then for features I used my copy of the Philips HearSuite with the 9040 loaded side-by-side with this online tool from Bernafon: https://bernafon.cdn.dgs.com/demos/compare-tool/en/?family={A1C3398B-262E-4DC8-AA95-9356FFF0FE86}
I couldn’t find any differences at all.
Can I prove it 100%? No of course not. But it was enough evidence for me.
So, @withoutwings, your conclusion is that Costco and William Demant never stopped selling Bernafon. They simply engaged in an elaborate shell game in which they made a very public display of discontinuing Bernafon but then reintroduced it under the guise of a Philips label, accompanied by detailed marketing materials which make it appear to be a different product when in reality it has simply been the next generations of Bernafon hearing aids all along? Looks like they have very successfully fooled a lot of people and have increased sales in the process.
Bernafon built its brand on the concept of channel free processing, which uses phonemic compression to make soft sounds audible and loud sounds comfortable instead of WDRC. All of the technical reports I’ve seen from Bernafon talk about this. According to the linked article below, Bernafon is still using channel free processing as part of its newly termed “hybrid technology”. See “Bernafon Alpha Hearing Aids Technology” down at the bottom of the page:
I haven’t seen any similar description of sound processing on the Philips’ materials. I’m not saying you’re wrong. You may in fact be right, and I know one Costco audiologist who agrees with you. But if the Philips HearLink 9040 is actually the Bernafon Alpha, then William Demant has gone to great pains to make the two appear to be very different, emphasizing some feature in the description of one and downplaying them in the description of the other. They may in fact share the same AI noise reduction but be using different sound processing technologies. I really don’t know.
What makes it weird is that Costco terminated the sale of Bernafon aids (which they’d been selling for years) and (more or less) replaced it with the Philips aids. It’s not clear why they did that, but if the Philips aids are just rebadged Bernafon aids, why would William Demant and Costco bother going through that whole charade, I wonder?
I know it’s very confusing to differentiate the products of these sister companies because they share so many of the common peripheral technologies, but one gotta believe that there must be some differentiation between the 4 brands under William Demant (Oticon, Bernafon, Sonic and the Philips licensee) then just rebadging versions of each other. Why would William Demant bother with the rebadging game like that between its different brands?
I can totally understand the rebadging concept of a name brand into a Kirkland Signature aid, like how the KS7 and KS8 were rebadged aids from Sivanto who owns Rexton and Signia, and the KS9 and KS10 are rebadged Phonak aids from Sonova (who also owns Unitron and Hanaston). But the Bernafon and now the Philips aids have been sold under their own brand names at Costco, not as some kind of rebadged KSxx Costco name brand. So if Bernafon sale is discontinued from Costco, is it because it hasn’t been selling well due to being a weaker competitor? If so, how would rebadging it as a Philips brand aid help improve sales at Costco if it’s really still a Bernafon aid at heart?
I’m not saying that folks who believe that the Philips aids are just a rebadged brand from Bernafon aids are wrong, I just don’t get the benefit of doing a rebadging here unless it’s to change from a non-Costco brand name into a Costco KSxx brand.
Exactly this IMO: they would have agreed that it made sense both as an opportunity to increase sales at Costco (familiarity with the Philips brand) while no longer directly cannibalising/competing with full-price sales of Bernafon elsewhere.
The cost to rebadge and reword is a drop in the ocean compared to actually pouring any new R&D funds into a new/modified product for this purpose.
Oh? Then why didn’t they do it before but instead wait until now??? Bernafon had been sold at Costco for years already, nothing new here. They why didn’t they just rebadge it years ago? Why wait until now if the reason is to help out independent Bernafon sellers from having their sales cannibalized?
Philips used to be in the hearing aid business A LONG TIME ago. Yeah, its brand is ubiquitous in consumer health products, but not with hearing aids in particular, at least not for a long while until very recently. The Bernafon brand is a more well known hearing aid brand than the Philips brand for hearing aids. So rebadging Bernafon to Philips to get the familiarity of the Philips brand as a hearing aid company is not a convincing reason for me. If somebody mentioned to me a couple of years ago the Philips is a hearing aid brand, I wouldn’t have known. But I would know right away that Bernafon is a hearing aid brand.
Why does that even matter in this context? Probably at some point some execs looked at the data at the time, didn’t like what they saw, had an idea, and then acted on it…
Isn’t that how things tend to work in the corporate sector? They try something, it either works or doesn’t work and then they make changes as necessary if/when that comes to light.
Yeah well it was for me - as someone new to hearing aids Philips “felt” like a comfortable choice as I knew the brand well. (That wasn’t why I ultimately picked them of course as I did plenty of additional research, but I can certainly see how having a well-known and trusted brand contributes to people’s decision.)
I think Demant certainly did a much better job at masking it than GN did with the Jabra aids. And good for them, though if I am correct I imagine they won’t appreciate my posts here on the subject (noting that I’m not the first to say it)!
I don’t think they’ll be worried about anything we say here in this regard, in fact they knew when they released the Phillips that there was going to be a bit flank, especially from the opposition! actually I still think there a Sonic, oh hang on is the Bernafon a copy of the Sonic as well, oh well hardly matters anymore, the cats out of the bag anyway, right so Oticon has just released a new model, so we can now expect Phillips to have “something” out in the next few months!
The Philips 9040 should do much better in wind than the Philips 9030 by the way. Wind noise handling and sudden sound handling are the 2 main new features in the 9040. If you can, get the 9040 if wind is important for you. I’ve heard nothing but positive feedbacks about the 9040 wind handling, which is the same new wind handling technology as the Oticon Real wind handling.
Before I retired, I had a company that developed and sold vertical market computer software. It costs a lot of money to develop and debug complex software; and each additional feature can add a lot to the R&D costs - particularly if you are striving for the highest level of quality because really skilled programmers are nearly impossible to find. It also costs more to provide tech support, etc. on the new features. So, more features means more expensive. Now, whether the higher-lever hearing aids should be thousands more - well I suspect it’s whatever the market will bear.
I may be wrong, but I don’t think there are loop channels for left and right anyway. Nor would the Tcoil have the ability to differentiate and pick one channel over the other. So I think Tcoil is always mono, but I would love to be wrong on this.
It looks like you are correct, telecoil is mono (or perhaps dual mono) unless using something like Music Links. This is probably one of several reasons why telecoil doesn’t seem very popular and Auracast is supposed to be a dramatic shift.
Speaking of telecoil, yesterday, I was comparing telecoil (using the Bellman & Symfon High Powered Neck Loop, $80) to the Philips AudioClip ($260) with my 9040’s. Also plugged the loop into my iPad. The AudioClip had much deeper bass, but the neck loop performance was totally acceptable…would not have a problem using it for Zoom meetings. I checked the loop out from my university library, but may buy one anyway as my church does not have telecoil installed. They do have assistive listening devices with plug in speakers that clip over the ears…I could just plug the loop into the receiver. I know a number of members that have HAs and it would be nice to have the neck loops on hand for those that can use them.
My old church has FM receivers and headphones that sound similar to what you describe. I plugged my Roger on into the FM receiver and it worked very well. I didn’t go for telecoil equipped aids because I didn’t know of any sites I frequent that were telecoil equipped. But providing loops for those that can use it is a great idea for the meantime until LE audio & auracast are available, and we have the aids to use it.
