Oticon OPN S 1 vs Unitron Moxi Fit - What am I missing?

Hearing Aids
,
#27

I basically use the default program 95% of the times, but I set the noise reduction to the max values And the transition help to the highest value, like in the speech in noise program, without the extra volume gain that the speech in noise program comes with.

The other 5% of the times, I either use the music program, or a program with the DSL Adult rationale so I can hear sharper sounds to help even more with speech if necessary. Except for the music program, all my other programs have maximum noise reduction values. To me, there’s no point in using lower noise reduction values if you’re paying for the max values that come with the OPN 1.

#28

@Volusiano : what is “DSL Adul rationale” ?

#29

A fitting rationale is a “formula” so to speak to decide how compression ratios of gains are applied throughout the frequency range based on your hearing loss to give you the best hearing amplification. Many HA mfgs use their own proprietary fitting rationale that they think will work best for their brand of HAs. But there are also fitting rationales that had been instituted as industry standards to be used for any brand of hearing aids.

Oticon uses their proprietary fitting rational called VAC+ on the OPN line of hearing aids (and probably the previous lines as well). That is what is in your default program, and all the other built-in programs that you choose from their menu.

But, they do offer and make available other industry standard fitting rationales as well, like the NAL-NL1, NAL-Nl2, DSL v5.0 Adult, DSL v5.0 Pediatric.

I find the VAC+ to sound the most natural compared to the other rationales. But the DSL v5.0 Adult rationale and the NAL-NL1 rationale sound a bit brighter. Although this makes it not as natural sounding to me, this brightness seems to help me understand speech better in more rare situations where I find speech clarity challenging even when using the VAC+ more natural sounding Oticon rationale.

So you can opt to have your audi dedicate the remaining 3 programs that the OPN has available to 3 of these standard rationales, just to compare and see if you’d prefer any of them over the VAC+ in the default program or not. This will allow you to do A/B/C/D comparison between the different rationales. Once you settle on your preference, you can keep the ones you like more and remove the ones you don’t care for afterward.

1 Like
#30

Thank you! Great explanation!

I’m calling back the audiologist tomorrow and asking them if I can get the Unitron for 48h to compare… There’s still a “something” I can’t put my finger on… I want/need to see if it’s my mind playing trick to me.

#31

Called back the Audiologist… I’m getting the Unitron back at the end of the day until next Tuesday so I can make a direct comparaison…

I’ve also looked at the Unitron software and (yes this is marketing but…) I kind of understand the difference in the algorithm… Will see :slight_smile:

#32

I can confirm…no “feedback”/warbling issue with the Unitron. Only have this with the Oticon.

Making some more comparaison tomorrow.

#33

@Volusiano, received my Noahlink today and connected to my OPN S.

Here’s a screenshot of the feedback analyzer…Would this explain why I’m having issue?

feedback
feedback.png2478×1004 132 KB

#34

I don’t think your issue is with feedback, is it? If not, looking at the feedback analyzer screen shot is not going to solve your issue. Your hearing loss is fairly mild to moderate at most, so I don’t think you’d have to worry about feedback causing your issue.

The only issue I’ve read that you’ve had so far with the OPN S1 is that the “wow” hype was not there for you as expected, and you also mentioned that you have issue understanding in group discussion in noise, right? Oh yeah, and the robotic sounds once in a while, right?

What did your audiologist recommend to do with your OPN S1 to fix your issues?

#35

After a week with both model, I’m meeting again with my audiologist on Monday (end of return period for the OPN S1).

Here’s how I fixed my issues:

  • Made a copy of the General program and ordered it as P2
  • Disabled feedback manager on P2
  • Had the OpenSound Navigator parameters set to “maximum”

Was in a very crowded event last night and it worked “perfectly”. Since I disabled the feedback manager this is just perfect…no more robotic sounds.

After going back to the Unitron for a few days, speech recognition was good/great, but I don’t feel like the sound is as crisp and rich for everything else.

So I’m probably going to keep the OPN S1 on Monday after discussing with the audiologist. Will see what she thinks of the changes I made (will have to confess to her that I played with the setting using my own NoahLink :slight_smile: )

#36

Great to hear that you’ve found a fix for the OPN S1. Can you clarify that you disabled the (traditional) Feedback Shield (that exists also in the original OPN), or you disabled the OpenSound Optimizer which is the new feedback prevention technology that only exists on the OPN S series? Or both maybe? I’m just trying to ascertain which one of the 2 above is causing the issue with the robotic sounds for you.

At your low level of hearing loss, you probably don’t have any kind of feedback issue that would require to turn on the feedback manager anyway (either the Feedback Shield or the OpenSound Optimizer).

Also, turning on max values in the OpenSound Navigator for Noise Reduction and Transition Help probably helped you a lot at the crowded event. With the default program, they don’t set those parameters to maximum values anyway, but I think they should. Did you try to do Default Program to Program 2 comparison back and forth at the crowded event to confirm that Program 2 gave you the edge over the Default Program at that crowded event?

#37

Has your audiologist been doing Real Ear Measurement (REM). Unless the hearing aids are adjusted to the target curve using REM they can sound very different. Also, if non standard fitting formulas are being used that can cause a difference too.

Your loss is not that bad, and even with open fittings you should not be having feedback issues.

#38

Hi @Sierra,

Yes, doing REM was the first thing she did.

What do you mean by “non standard fitting formulas” ?

#39

Hi @Volusiano,

I disabled the Feedback Shield on my P2. Only time I notice I create feedback is when I put on my Bose headphone to block the outside world while listening to the TV :wink: I just switch to my P1 where the Feedback shield is active and the “beeeppp” sound just stop. After my Monday appiontment I’m gonna switch my P2 to P1 and vice-versa so that by default when I turn them on in the morning the Feedback Shield is disabled.

I didn’t think of switching between the 2 programs during my event. I was doing business development and the thought didn’t occur. I’m going to a noisy restaurant tonight, I will do the experiment :slight_smile:

#40

Each manufacturer typically has their own proprietary fitting formula with some variations of it. Rexton for example has a formula called SmartFit, and it can be further set to New User, Experienced, and to Power. If you are trying to compare one hearing aid brand to another and each is using their proprietary formula, the formula even though it is REM adjusted, is unlikely to be the same. If you want to compare two different brands it would be better to ask to have each one set to a industry standard formula like NAL-NL2. Then when each is REM adjusted you will be comparing the hearing aids, not the fitting formula.

On your feedback graph above I am not sure what you are showing. Did you do the actual feedback test, or is it just the computer simulation? I gather you have the NoahLink but I think you need more than that to do the actual feedback test. I recall that signal has to be sent through a speaker like the one used for a REM test. It has to be done with the hearing aids in your ears.

#41

I read in the Oticon OpenSound Optimizer (OSO, the new feedback prevention technology) that for OPN S with the OSO, Oticon recommends you turn off the (traditional) Feedback Shield and only turn it on if the OSO is not enough to help prevent feedback in the first place. Looks like your audi was not heeding this advice and turned on Feedback Shield for you in the first place. Most traditional feedback managers like Feedback Shield uses strategies like slight frequency shifting as well as phase shifting and gain reduction to help combat feedback. That’s probably why things might have sounded more robotic to you.

I find the VAC+ Oticon proprietary fitting rationale to sound the most natural with the OPN, so if you’re happy with how it sounds right now, I wouldn’t try to change it to the other standard fitting rationales. The mfg come up with their own proprietary fitting rationale because they know their hearing aids better than anyone else and so they come up with a (their own) fitting rationale that they think would work best for their own hearing aids. I wouldn’t deviate from this unless you’re not happy with the VAC+. But you can certainly try the other standard fitting rationales if you want to see how they compare. It’s easy to do, just make a copy of P1 to P2, P3, and P4, and in each of those non-P1, select a different fitting rationale for them. Then you can toggle back and forth between the programs to see which one you like the best. For me with my very bad ski slope hearing loss, I still find the VAC+ to be the most natural sounding one, but I find the DSL V5.0 Adult to give me a sharper edge on the high end sounds to help me with better speech clarity when I really need it.

#42

Hi @Volusiano,

I checked this afternoon and I was actually fitted with NAL1. Not with VAC+.
Would trying VAC+ requires different “gain” value? Or I can just copy my NAL1 program?

#43

Not really. You just make a copy of the default program (which I assumed has been changed to NAL-NL1 to P2 or something like that and change P2 to VAC+ in the Program Manager -> General -> VAC+.

I’m a little surprised that your audi took the deliberate effort to modify the default program’s fitting rational from VAC+ to NAL-NL1 in the first place. Most people would use the mfg’s proprietary fitting rationale first, which is set as the default, because the presumption here is that the mfg know their hearing aids the best, and if they’ve come up with the trouble of using their own proprietary fitting rationale that is supposedly best suited for their brand of hearing aids, that’s what should be tried first.

I personally find the VAC+ to sound the most natural. The NAL-NL1 is a bit sharper for my taste, and while I resort to it when I find a challenging speech in noise environment, I prefer to stay with the VAC+ 99% of the times.

For people with reverse hearing loss slope, the Oticon VAC+ fitting rationale does some stuff to the gain that is counter-intuitive yet very effective based on their research. So some folks with reverse slope loss actually seek out the Oticon OPN for its VAC+ fitting rationale.

#44

Tried the VAC+ for a few days and definitely prefer NL1.

Had to try :slight_smile:

#45

Did you try NAL-NL2 and DSL v5.0 Adult as well? If yes, did you still like NAL-NL1 the best? I wonder if one may tend to be biased to the first rationale that one has exposed to and has gotten used to just because they’ve developed a taste to it.

#46

I have not, but I will give it a try at some point in the coming weeks.