Oticon OPN 1 or Resound LinX 3-D 9?


#41

Thanks Volusiano for your response.

Yes, I was fitted with the 85dB receivers, and when I asked if I could not benefit with a 100dB receiver for my left ear the Audi said no.

The Audi did not do a speech test himself but used the data I had from the BAHA evaluation test in December. He did create a loud noise in my aids to decide what my comfort level was. It was not very systematic and I will ask him if there is scope for raising this level. I assume this level corresponds to the maximum volume I can achieve for the presets he has created.

I do not recall him doing a comfort level test for ‘streamed sound’. Is this level the same as for the sound received through the microphones by default? As there is no volume adjustment possible except at the source there must be a cut off level chosen by the Audi. Can I ask him to raise this level, or is it not technically possible independent of the level set for sound via microphones? My Speech reception threshold and Pure Tone Avg. are 60 dB and 64 dB for the right ear and 80 dB and 86 dB for the left.

As I mentioned before the Audi has provided 3 presets for sound via microphones and one (P4) for telecoil and microphone. The ipod screen shows two volume level numbers when I try to set the volume to the maximum for the 4 programs, first one in blue (left ear) and the second one in red (right ear). They are P1 (0, 2); P2 (0, 3); P3 (1, 4) and P4 (1, 2). I asked the Audi about the meaning of these numbers but did not get a satisfactory reply.

I am still wondering why a volume adjustment at the connect clip will not increase the volume received from the ipod. Once this augmented sound is streamed to the hearing aids they should deliver it to my ears unless the cut off levels within the aids limit the output. Am I correct in my interpretation?

If my Audi cannot provide a higher level output of streamed sound to my ears so that I can use, say, 60% of the maximum for normal use and feel comfortable I may have to look for a different option. My main purpose of buying an MFI hearing aid was to have wireless input of audio and music. For better hearing of every day speech etc there may be other alternatives without Bluetooth.

By the way, the Audi showed me the Phone clip used with Linx hearing aids. Unlike the Connect clip this has an input jack for physically connecting to audio sources which do not have Bluetooth. However, if the cut off is in the hearing aids then this will not help either.

Any comments?


#42

There is a tab along from the programs to adjust the mix when streaming. Any device can be set-up independently. There’s no reason why this cant easily be set to your satisfaction. If you have a very open fitting it might not be possible to drive the bass properly as it needs a degree of occlusion. You might want to trade a slightly more occluding fit for better lower frequency sounds.


#43

As I am using the ipod touch the only adjustment I can make is using the Accessibility feature available on this device. I can choose the streaming independently for the two ears under the ‘MFI hearing devices’ tab which allows to ‘Adjust independently’ hearing device mic volume. Does it refer to adjustment in the hearing aid or in the ipod? How do i increase the output from the hearing aids?


#44

Oticon Opn Phone/TV Adapter/ConnectClip sound settings for quality/bass/mic


#45

You get your Audiologist to turn it up, there’s a tab specifically for this in the Aventa software.


#46

I believe Aventa is for Resound Linx. For my OPN1 I suppose it will be Genie 2. Does Genie 2 also have a similar tab?


#47

Volusiano - Give it a rest. He says he wants more control in the app. Because you disagree doesn’t make him wrong.


#48

Yep, here’s the Tab(s);
Oticon Opn Phone/TV Adapter/ConnectClip sound settings for quality/bass/mic


#49

No the Android app and connect clip doesn’t have independently adjustable volume for streaming and for the aid mics. I have an iPad and the app isn’t even available. The iPad can connect. That connection is superior to the connect clip connection to the phone.

I don’t care what Oticon feels. I am paying $6,000 for the pair. Give me what I want.

For most people, you may be right. I am me. I am a person that will find a way to make it like I wish, or I will find another option. Which ever aid I go with, I will find the fitting software and hardware. I will carefully note what my Audi has set. I am bright enough not to damage my hearing.

It is obvious that you are thrilled with the OPN1s. I am thrilled that you have found what works well for you. They seem to be an astounding step forward for many people. I am so disappointed that they aren’t for me. The OPN are only slightly better than my previous mid level Oticon’s from 2013. They were only a some better than the Savia 311dsz aids that I had. I upgraded from the savia to the Oticon for connectivity options. The connectivity was good but the sound was poor by comparison to most headphones…and were certainly no competition to my Westone earbuds. Part of that was poor bass reproduction and lack of volume. These OPN have better bass and volume…still not going to knock either the Westones or the Bose headphones off their perches. I want high fidelity when listening to music. I am gathering that Resound is the best for streaming fidelity and certainly for user control. These things are important to ME. So I am gonna give them a try. If the general hearing suffers, then I will go back to the OPN aids. Either way, I will get control. Look at it this way. By not giving me the little things I want via app, Oticon is pushing me towards either another aid or getting the fitting software and hardware. Their obstinacy is counterproductive.


#50

Thank you for the article links. I already knew the difference between hearing the sound and getting the intelligence. If, in fact, the opn and the Linx 3D provide no hearing performance differences for me, then the accessories and control will become the deciding factor…


#51

Here’s the way I see it;

The manufacturers are caught between a rock-and-a.hardplace when it comes to allowing fine tuning adjustments for accessories to be recorded permanently into your hearing aid programming. The security issues are challenging to say the least!

The audiologists/fitters are caught between a rock-and-a.hardplace when it comes to figuring out which fine tuning adjustment for accessories needs to be programmed because the hearing aid wearer is the only one who knows what is needed.

So we agree on the following; Yes, we need to get the hardware and software to make these changes ourselves :wink:


#52

Hearing aids are not designed for high fidelity music listening. None of them will be able to compete with headphones or earbuds because their receivers are much smaller physically than headphones and earbuds . If you expect any of them to be comparable to headphones and earbuds, you’ll most likely be disappointed by most if not all of them. That would be an unrealistic expectation.


#53

This is what most people who want finer control of their hearing aids do. They get the programming software and hardware to do it themselves. I’m one of those people. Once they have the ability to program themselves, they don’t care as much about what they can control on the phone app.

People who don’t want to mess with DIY programming will naturally prefer to have more control on their phone app. For those people, they’ll find the OPN phone app disappointing and move on to another brand and model that gives them better control on the phone app.


#54

That’s too bad that the Connect Clip connection does not give you the equivalence of the iPhone interface in terms of controling left and right volume sliders, etc. If I were you, I would write and complain to Oticon about this the way you did as well.


#55

I think max comfort level testing is only done when the hearing test to create the audiogram is performed. It’s not necessary to do it again for the streamed sound because MCL is independent of where the source is, whether it be in the testing booth or from the mic or from the streamed sound.

The level chosen by the audi in Genie 2 for the streamed sound is basically the Phone loudness level for the phone, the TV loudness level for the TV Adapter, and the Remote Mic Loudness level for the ConnectClip. The default is in the middle and the next click up is +3dB and the last click up is +9dB.

For sound coming from the mic, the loudness (amplification) level is done in the Fine Tuning section.

I assume that your audi already set these to the max levels for you. The MPO (Maximum Power Output) is also available in the Fine Tuning section and can also be raised either across the board or at each of the 16 frequency bands as well. This is probably determined by the MCL input that the audi entered into Genie 2 for your hearing profile initially.

This is interesting that you get some kind of 0-4 numbers for your presets’ volumes on your iOS device. I get a percentage on my volume sliders, between 0-100%, on my iPhone. But I use direct streaming via MFI between the OPN and my iPhone. It sounds like you’re not using MFI but you’re using the ConnectClip between your OPN and your iPod. So maybe the interface there is different.

Is there a reason you don’t use the MFI in your iPod and use the ConnectClip instead? Is it because you’re hoping the ConnectClip can give you even more volume compared to MFI?

The reason I originally said I didn’t think the ConnectClip can give you any more volume compared to the MFI direct streaming is because technically the ConnectClip is not an amplification device. It simply brokers the audio and control data between the smart device and your hearing aids. So technically, if you’re already hitting the ceiling of the amplification level of the hearing aid, the ConnectClip is not going to be able to make it sound any louder because the amplifier is inside the hearing aid, not the ConnectClip.

BUT, that’s only from the max amplification perspective. From the data perspective, the ConnectClip can still manipulate the volume of the data for sure. So let’s say if a sound at a particular time carries an original volume value of 40 out of 100, for example. Maybe upping the volume on your iPod to the max will change its volume data from 40 to 60, let’s say. Without the ConnectClip, MFI will deliver this volume value of 60 to the OPN and it’ll be amplified in accordance to this volume. But with the ConnectClip, maybe it can further manipulate that volume value from 60 to 80 before it reaches the OPN. Then the OPN will process this volume data as 80 and you’ll hear this sound louder on the OPN.

But let’s say if there’s a sound at original volume value of 80. The iPod at max volume control will raise this to 100 and the OPN will process it as such. But because 100 is the ceiling value for the volume data, if you use the ConnnectClip in between, it cannot increase this volume value to beyond 100, so for this particular sound at that particular volume data, the ConnectClip cannot boost it any further. The OPN still receives the value of 100 from the ConnectClip.

So another way of looking at it is that the ConnectClip may be able to raise the floor of the volume value up, but it cannot break the ceiling of the volume value. What you’ll end up getting is a compressed dynamic range for the soundscape you’re listening to, compressed to the ceiling level. Hope this makes sense.

So this helps if the original sound content has very low volume values and a small dynamic range near the floor level. Then the iPod can boost it up some and the ConnectClip may be able to boost it up some more. But if the original sound content has typical volume values and a wide dynamic range as most quality digital sound contents are, then the louder volume values may already hit near the ceiling with the iPod max volume control, and the ConnectClip is not going to be able to help break this ceiling. This is the perspective that I looked at when I said that I don’t think the ConnectClip can help make the volume louder than it already is.


#56

image to @Volusiano (my favorite authority on Opn 's). Apologies for (pwd), posting while drinking. :cocktail:


#57

I am using an ipod directly connected to the hearing aids using the Bluetooth, with no intermediate connect clip device. I have to ask my Audi why I get the two volume level numbers for the four presets and not all numbers are the same.


#58

Volusiano: I am interested in DIY programming (I have reasonable expertise in the area) as I also find OPN app ON rather limited and disappointing, rather than opting for another make like Linx.

I can download the Genie 2 program but where do I find the instructions for using it and what hardware items do I need? Can you please refer me to any document on the web that I can access?

Of course, there is the question of the validity of the 3 year warranty if I start modifying the settings made by the Audi. Any comments?


#59

Volusiano: I totally follow what you said about the role of the ConnectClip when the input from the iPod is already at the limit of what the OPN is set by the Audi to allow. This limit, as you explain, is the MCL that my Audi has set based on my ‘reaction’ to his trying a loud sound received through the mics. It is not a limit of the OPNs themselves. I am not sure he found it from the copy of the audiogram I gave him.

So, will it make sense if I ask him to raise the MCL by, say, 5dB? If I understand it correctly, his only concern is to avoid damaging my ears but at 82 I know enough not to use the maximum level with the presets or 100% of the iPod volume capacity except in rare cases and for very short duration of time. My intention is generally not to exceed 60/70% of these limits and still be able to hear without staining my ears (which I have to do now).


#60

Please check out the DIY section in this forum. @pvc is the local expert on this forum on DIY programming.

In short, you can get either the MiniPro (which is a more universal wired hardware device), or the FittingLink 3.0 (wireless Oticon device) or NoahLink for hardware along with the necessary cables if using a wired programming device. Note that for the Oticon OPN, you need a WIRED hardware device to do firmware update.

There should be no issue with the 3 year warranty because you can always store your hearing professional’s settings up front before making any changes to it. If there’s any issue with the hearing aids, you can restore them to the original settings done by the hearing professional before returning it for warranty repair. But that’s only if you’re afraid that your hearing professional has an issue with it.

As for instruction for the Genie 2 program, it’s online. Once you open the Genie 2 software, the Help menu will take you to an online section on the Oticon website for detailed instruction. You can also watch webcast on audiologyonline.com for more presentation on how to use Genie 2. This forum in the DIY has a wealth of experts who can help you as well.