Oticon More3 With VAC+ & NAL-NL2 Installed [Notes & Conclusions]

Hearing Aids
#72

@Volusiano: I realize that my More3s don’t have the Clear Dynamics feature that accommodates 113dB input transients.

Q: do you know how many dB they’ll handle before they max out?

1 Like
#73

I’m guessing that this question was derived from my comment in the OPN 3 review post with @e1405?

Below is the link to the Oticon Clear Dynamics whitepaper. While I can’t find where Oticon explicitly say what the input dynamic range of the OPN 3/OPN S3/More 3 is, I’m guessing that it’s at 90-95 dB roughly based on the 2 screenshots below from this whitepaper.

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#74

@Volusiano: Yes, that’s what spawned the question. I decided to ask it in my evaluation thread (perhaps a mistake?)

Thanks for the link to the white paper. (But I saw no such diagrams in the link that I downloaded.)

#75

@Volusiano: 113dB is a very loud transient for an acoustic guitar. In a recording studio, I’d be knocking that down right off the bat with a tiny bit of fast compression with a slower release time - even though I like to record dry and then add compression as required for the wet mixdown. (Well, I don’t add it - the engineer/producer does that …).

So, Clear Dynamics probably wouldn’t sound very pleasing to my ears.

[We should enlist @christiansleep to comment on the magnitude of these transients: he’s a very talented musician/recordist.]

1 Like
#76

Only if Genie2 ran on MAC OS!.. I am also a MAC only user and ended up buying this just to run Genie2.

:slight_smile:

2 Likes
#77

this may have been a cheaper option, not sure to be honest, it doesn’t help much after you have already done it though :slight_smile:

#78

Just being honest, I am not sure what you are trying to ascertain, but from the bits I have read, as much dynamic input range as possible would be a good thing, because if you’re playing guitar and your hearing aid is compressing the input when it reaches a certain threshold, you are not getting a true representation of how loud you are playing etc.

I am not really sure without doing a bit more research how loud 113db is to be honest, can you let me know exactly what you are trying to find out and I’ll look into it for you :slight_smile:

Thank you for the compliments on music, the irony of It being on a hard of hearing forum makes me laugh though :slight_smile: just my sense of humour, @SpudGunner is also a very accomplished musician :slight_smile:

Just giving a quick look, I have come across some of this stuff before, particularly the Fletcher Munson Curve, I am no techie with stuff like this, I am only para-phrasing what I have read elsewhere etc.

The curve basically states that sounds in the frequency range of 1-4k although being at the same Decibel level as the other frequencies. are perceived louder. (probably due to the fact that those frequencies hurt our ears more etc, (assuming that we can hear those frequencies), I work a bit with mixing music etc and I would call those ranges Hi Mid, there maybe different ranges used when describing (Bass, upper bass, low mid, mid, hi mid etc etc). It maybe a lot simpler like a hifi Bass, Middle and Treble for instance.

Anyway this link may help with what you are trying to find out :slight_smile:

It has some good information.

Now as an example, although I haven’t worn my hearing aids since 2017, soon to change on the 27th when I will hopefully get new ones etc.

I have done gigs with the ones I have, when I gig I play amplified acoustic guitar, it was a lot brighter sound, due to the hearing aids being boosted from around 4k, which is where my Audiogram went Grand Canyon dipped back then, or they could have reduce the low end. I didn’t know as much as don now back then. The sound with them in wasn’t unpleasant just different I would say.

I hope some of that helps with what you are trying to find out buddy, if it doesn’t sorry for wasting your time and I know you’ll never get that time back :wink:

Christian

#79

Well … thanks for all the work you’ve gone to, but it misses what I’m saying.

Here’s perhaps a better explanation of where I’m coming from:

  1. I’m a finger style guitarist. 113dB is probably louder than the transients I generate with my fingers, so Clear Dynamics feature wouldn’t do me any good;

  2. Even if I DID create 113dB transients with my fingers (unlikely) MY EARS would hear that as harsh and spikey - I’d probably just back off a bit with my playing;

But 1.and 2. (above) assume that 113dB will be a hard SPL for me to achieve with my fingers alone.

So - simply put - what I want to know is: how loud is a good acoustic guitar, when played with fingers alone? If it’s in the neighbourhood of 95dB or below, Clear Dynamics offers me no benefit.

[I take it from your answer that you don’t know the real SPL of an acoustic guitar when plucked with the fingers, and with the soundhole facing *away* from me. That’s what I need to ascertain whether the Clear Dynamics feature would be worth the extra $$$ for the More2.]

#80

You might find this interesting. Sounds like you might hit 100dB but more likely will be under 90dB

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#81

Hi mate, this is my personal opinion. From a quick look around the internet etc as well.

I had already been reading up about dynamic range input, and despite manufacturers claims, it’s rarely as high as what is stated, at least from personal opinions on forums etc. People seem to think also from reading on forums Acoustic Guitar played normally to hard is in the 80-95 db range.

Obviously there are lots of variables how hard you play, design of the guitar, woods used, even down to the type of pics used etc.
How heavy handed you are, I have worn holes through guitars and when I first got my martin I had it re-fretted after a year.

135db is 700watt marshal head 4 x 12 on max from a few feet away.

Now 60-80DB average acoustic guitar playing, one guy tested two of his guitars and the max he could get was 95DB with an spl meter point at the sound whole from 2 feet away.

Does your acoustic ever sound harsh or like it’s compressing?
Would you have to pay the extra dollars yourself?

I would probably hit the guitar a lot harder than you, I am very heavy handed.

My thoughts though if you are getting up and near the 95DB of your aids, I would go for the headroom of the 113DB one, only because if you are near the input max, its going to distort, and digital distortion is not pleasant compared to how a reel to reel pleasantly saturates the sound and boosts harmonic content etc.

Got an eye migraine so I am struggling to see the screen at the moment, and I have to go out in five mins etc.

You can probably get an SPLMeter App for your iPhone and measure the lvl yourself, that’s probably what I would do to be sure x

#82

had a quick scan, running late, will check it out when I get back from my covid jab :slight_smile:

thanks for posting buddy :wink:

#83

@MDB: :grin: LOL! I just found the same scholarly article! I was surprised that the classical guitar average SPL at 85dB topped the steel string level of 80dB.

It took quite a bit of good Googling to turn up this reference, and I thank you for taking the time to look it up.

It is as I suspected: these measurements, plus the fact that the soundhole of the guitar faces away from me as I play, pretty well negates the value of Clear Dynamics for me.

Thanks again!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

@christiansleep: And thank you, as well, for your efforts on my behalf.

I would, indeed, have to pay for More2s out of my own pocket (which I frankly can’t afford). The expenditure wouldn’t be justifiable, based on what you and @MDB have turned up.

So … one less moot point, about which to worry!:white_check_mark::+1:t2:

1 Like
#84

Glad it helped xx
I’ll message you my party piece in private xx

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#85

Thanks @Volusiano for referring me to this very interesting discussion. I guess the only way to really know the benefits of the “clear dynamics” is through the empirical route.

#86

@e1405: Thanks for weighing in, however, as I’ve said before, the empirical route won’t work for me if - in the final analysis - More2s are indicated: I simply cannot afford them.

#87

Yes, I hear you. I can’t either, at least not brand new. However, I consider taking up volusiano’s suggestion and search for a second-handed OPN 1. Problem is that I worry those used aids will die on me.

#88

I don’t think that you’ve acquainted yourself with me: I get my aids from Veterans Affairs.

I’m actually very satisfied with the performance of my More3s, thus far. Our discussion of the potential advantages of Clear Dynamics in More2 is entirely hypothetical.

Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn’t really fit my situation.

2 Likes
#89

I am not a Vet, but others on this site have said that they got OPN-S1s from the VA, not sure about the Mores, maybe too new??

Mike

#90

I often see OPN1s in the $400 range on eBay.
I picked up a set of OPN S1s with a poor battery for $200.
Keep a lookout.

Mike

#91

As of the first of May the More aids will be available in the VA system. I will be talking to my VA Audi about them mid May.