#8

@Volusiano Thanks for your insightful reply.
I agree the problem is inherent in the Oticon feedback algorithm.
I’m certain my OPN’s would never exhibit that phenomena, as I had tried that experiment with the OPN S, which are the same as the More earmolds.
Today, I attended a musical function at a room I’ve been going to for 4 years, and for the 1st time I was totally overwhelmed by echo, and artifacts
It was a solo piano playing, and I switched between Music & General, and the difference was quite profound.
Music program caused extreme echo, and a rustling sound.
General caused echo, albeit flatter sounding (to be expected), and a sense of what I can only describe as a swirling and pulsating sound sensation instead of the rustling.
Afterwords, talking to a small group of friends, with some recorded music playing in the next room, it was very difficult to discern the conversation.
All this with the new earmolds.

I plan on creating a new client in Genie 2 tomorrow, and reprogramming, using the Oticon 1st fit guide.
We’ll see how that goes.

Thanks for all your input.

#9

Thanks, my friend, I need all the help I can get!

#10

[:zap: x (:potato: ) x :zap: ] = :fries:

That’s what friends are for, Flash!

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#11

Wow, the More shouldn’t be that bad compared to the OPN S that you had. If I had to guess, I would say that maybe the fitting selection on Genie 2 for some reason doesn’t match with what you actually have on the More.

You did mentioned that you replaced the sealed earmold/receivers from the More with the earmolds/receivers from the OPNs, then you switched it out with the Power miniFit domes and it helped more with the flutter. But did you change the Selection -> Acoustic in Genie 2 to match with the new fitting that you put on the More? If not, then it’ll result in all the weird stuff you heard at your piano concert.

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#12

No I didn’t, because I’m wearing the earmolds I was fitted with.
It doesn’t make sense for sure, that’s why I’m going to start from scratch.
Maybe, just maybe, my audi did something erroneous, and felonious.
Or, I have a defective pair of More’s?
That’s it, More or less.

#13

It may be too soon to tell, but creating a new client , inputting my audiogram, and doing the personalization section in Genie 2, along with a few fitting tweaks, seems to have helped significantly.

I’ll know “MORE” when I get the opportunity to get into a similar situation as I described above.

#14

That’s great to hear! The curiosity remains for the engineer in me on what could be causing the fluttering in the original client setup you had…

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#15

I can’t export my settings from Genie 2 without using the Noah database.
I guess I could send you some screen caps of the 2 clients, if you wish.

#16

@flashb1024: Flutes are notorious for producing pure tones that the HA mistakes for feedback. It keeps trying to suppress it, but can’t, because there’s no feedback loop.

Hence the term : “fluttering”. FYI

#17

Also known as TITF syndrome (Talking in the fan)
Pianos, and certain vocal tones do it, too.
Should not be present in music program, but I was getting it in general & music programs.
It’s much improved since I did my tweaks in Genie, and today the new My Music program became available, so I’ll be testing it out this evening.

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#18

Good luck to you :zap:@flashb1024 :zap:!

#19

I’m not an expert and don’t try to be one. But the op has a significant loss in the higher frequency range. Could it be that the aids are being over extended in that range and possibly a strong aid would reduce the flutter he’s experiencing

#20

I’m not an HCP either, but there’s fluttering and there’s feedback, which are 2 different things. Feedback can either be a constant pitch sound or a whistling sound, depending on the nature of the feedback. But fluttering is more of a wobbling sound.

I think what you’re describing (over extending in the high) is probably more likely feedback than fluttering. But actually a stronger aid usually would increase amplification and cause the feedback to be worse, not better, if the problem is indeed feedback. After all, it is the stronger amplification that is causing the feedback back into the mics in the first place.

Usually one of the traditional feedback strategies is to slightly shift the frequency by 10 Hz or so. The idea I think is to disrupt any potential resonance that would promote feedback. Usually, most people can’t tell a difference in the overall sound if the frequency is shifted by only 10 Hz before amplification. But if a pure tone is picked up by the mics, shifting it by 10 Hz then amplifying the sound, and hearing the natural unamplified sound through the vent in parallel, has the potential to create the fluttering effect because you’re not hearing just 1 pure tone anymore, but now you’re really hearing 2 pure tones, the unaided original pure tones, and the amplified pure tone that’s 10 Hz off, hence the fluttering effect.

For the Oticon OPN S and the More, there’s another effect due to the feedback prevention technology (called the Optimizer) that Oticon employs which is the insertion of the STMs as I mentioned earlier in this thread to break up any potential onset of feedback. This can be heard by some folks and may be interpreted as fluttering as well. But this fluttering is considered the lesser evil between itself and the feedback, and it’s not always heard by everyone all the times, so Oticon deems it an acceptable side effect/trade-off for feedback prevention.

Oticon More Occassionly Buzzes/Stutters on Vowels
#21

Thank you for the correction. As a wearer of hearing aids for over 49 years I do know the difference between flutter and the high squeal of feedback and I was referring to to flutter

#22

@volusiano, and @hass5744 yes the STM’s are the villian, and to correct it in the More’s they added a setting in Genie 2 under Automatics. See screenshot:
image

BTW, I have had issues with the More’s, and decided while waiing for repair or exchange, to dust off my OPN S’s.
I created a new client, and using the new fitting assistant in Genie 2 was able to get very useable outcome with zero flutter!
My take away is it was a combination of as @hass5744 mentioned ie: feedback, and the spectro-temporal modulation @Volusiano alluded to.

#23

Resurrecting my op to give anyone who cares an update.
Went to my VA Audi appt. this AM.
New adi (she’s actually a trainee,eek).
My suspicions were confirmed:
The More with f/w 1.1.1 will not communicate with Genie 2020.1 @Volusiano may be interested to know.
The Audi chief came in, and we phoned Oticon support, where I got my hands slapped for DIYing my aids.
They recommended sending them in for a f/w downgrade. Like seriously?

The VA will NOT upgrade the Genie 2 software until it has bee vetted by IT. @cvkemp, i have no idea how your guy is going to circumvent the system, because I got a flat out NO.
I asked if I could bring in my laptop with Genie 2 2021.2, and, as expected was told no way.
No joy today at the VA.
The chief is going to put in an order for me to be seen at a Community Care Provider who will of course have the latest software.
I feel that’s my best bet, because at least I’ll be working with an authorized Oticon vendor.
The ongoing issues with the More’s are a bit disheartening, and of course, I have to accept the blame for upgrading with the knowledge they probably would not work with VA’s software.
If the Comm. Care Provider can’t resolve my issues, I guess I’ll have to trial Starkey or Signia.
As @SpudGunner mentioned in another thread, the new MyMusic program is nowhere near as good as the original, so if you do upgrade your Mores, be advised you cannot get the old Music program back, and you’ll have to create one.
I’ll keep you posted when I have new info.

#24

Enjoyed this post.
Thanks and good luck with getting the VA up to speed.

#25

Thanks for the update, @flashb1024. So I guess to capture my understanding of the MyMusic program, you had an initial favorable impression of it (even a wow moment for you if I recall correctly), but then upon further listening, you now don’t like it? Can you go into details on what you find you don’t like later on?

@SpudGunner gave us very detailed explanations of what he doesn’t like about the MyMusic program, even though he had an initial positive impression of it as well at first listen. But I don’t recall if you did elaborate on your dislike or not.

You guys all should probably communicate with your HCPs to ask them to tell Oticon Support that you want the original Music program back, but there should be no reason that they have to be mutually exclusive. Both the original Music program and the new MyMusic program can easily co-exist in my opinion.

#26

My Audiologist is the director of the Audiologist clinic and also the only IT this small clinic has. But I haven’t gotten an answer on getting my aids updated, and I was also told that the issue I am having with the right aid unmuting and then having to be restarted to get them back in sync is new to them at Oticon. The suggestion was to refresh the firmware and then pair them to each other again. The other suggestion was to return them for repair or replace me, I told my audiologist that it would take the whole military forces to take them away from me even for a day.

#27

Thanks Rick, as the saying goes "I gotta just keep on keepin’ on.

Yes, V, the 1st impression was a streaming session through my ConnectClip, which really seems to be the focus of MyMusic, because listening to most muusic on my Def Tech Speakers the mids are definitely compressed, and not at all what Oticon is trying to sell.
I have had very similar results to Jim’s, but I don’t play an instrument, so I can’t be as concise about live in studio sound, although, at a community center I am a member of, there is a grand piano which is played by a pro, and it sounds as though it’s lacking in dynamic range, especially in the mids.
Oticon claims they “Warmed Up the sound”, but it seems they took away all the presence in doing so.

Very good point, and if after I’ve had adjustments made by the Comm Care provider, I may pursue that avenue, if they can’t improve the MyMusic experience.
It may be in my best interest to just have a custom music program created, and not use Oticon’s.

According to the the chief at Long Beach, corporate IT must approve the software, but if your guy can sneak it in, good on him.

Probably upgrade to 1.1.1.

You’ve had so much success, I can relate!

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