I wonder if and how Oticon will release the DNN KPIs such as precision recall, AUC ROC, and F1 scores.
Still waiting for fitting ranges and specs of the Oticon More.
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I doubt that Oticon will ever publish this level of detail to the public. In the MSI whitepaper, they said that they designed several versions of the DNN, each with its own unique attributes, and they picked the version that gives the best performance on both the training data and the testing data.
The training data is the sound scenarios captured that are used to compare for differences between the DNN results and the captured result, which get back propagated to the network for training by tweaking the weights and biases to achieve the minimum values on these differences.
The testing data is the sound scenarios captured but not used for training, instead is only used for testing. Since the testing data is not used to train the DNN, you can use it to judge how well/accurate the DNN has been trained if it perform just as well on the testing data as it does on the training data, provided that both give a high enough decree of accuracy.
The figure below kind of illustrates this idea. The ultimate test will be when the chosen DNN is released to the hearing aids and actually tested by hearing aids users. Oticon promised to publish the results of the ultimate test in a whitepaper to be published some time in December 2020. I don’t really know how Oticon would be able to quantify the performance of the “ultimate” test, however, since users are only going to be able to give subjective opinions and won’t be able to quantify anything in terms of the DNN accuracy.
Just for reference, the MSI whitepaper was published on 11/9/2020.
You can find the specification for More in this document：
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Is there any news about the release date?
In this thread on the forum Upgrading my dependable Oticon opn1 needing advice, the OP said that his audi mentioned that the Oticon More is coming next week. I assume that he’s in the US.
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I’m in the US, my Audi said Oticon is having a big Anouncement next week. They are unveiling the new model after the S1 which I believe is the Oticon More. She will let me know as soon as she knows more and hopefully order it for me to try out.
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The Oticon More roll out could be big (if its lives up to its hype), or just fade away as another HA “also ran”. As in all advertising and no substance. When you read Oticon pumping - “we have has completely reinvented the way a hearing aid works”, then there better be major changes/improvements inside the “More” aid. For Oticon to come out November 30, 2020 with “More” news/video, then go completely silent well into January 2021 is odd. Maybe news breaks next week, maybe nothing. In any case I prefer learning about new hearings aids the day they are first announced, versus waiting 7 - 8 weeks for further updates. Seems as if Oticon November teaser, was just an attempt to make HA buyers hold off purchasing new aids, until the company comes out with the More brand, possibly in February or March.
My Audi just told me that she spoke with the Oticon rep and was informed that the USA release is scheduled for January, 12th and that she should have all of the fitting options at that time. My OPN1 is on it’s last legs and I am anxious to trial the MORE. My appoint for fitting is optimistically set for January 14th.
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Interesting - setting up an appointment with no price quote, nor real understanding how Oticon More really works. Then the fact that your Audi probably will have zero experience working with “More” new software, which might cause a few bumps in the road during aid adjustments. Best to wait until any new aid has been out at a month plus before trialing. One to allow you to research the new aid. Two to get various price quotes from different aid dealers and three allow your selected audiologist to become familiar with the Oticon’s More installed software. But on the other had if you have a good long term relationship with your Audi, trust him or her to give you a fair price and don’t mind some (learning on the job mistakes) during aid adjustments - then go or it.
Bottom line - you can always return at no cost, unless you had to pay for custom ear molds.
I understand I might be acting a little hasty. But as far as cost is concerned, the Oticon rep advised that the MORE platform will be included in UnitedHealthCare Hearing insurance plans. Also, as you suggested, I do have a high level of confidence in my Audi, lot’s of experience dispensing Oticon products. And, with a 45 day trial period, seems low risk to me. Not to mention that my OPN1 seems to crater and reboot multiple times a day. Very annoying and anxious to move on.
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I will be very grateful if you would like to make a review of your test. However, it would also be interesting to know your degree of deafness (you have not loaded it in your profile) and the model being tested
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Programming sw is the same for all current oticon aids.
Yes, there might be a feature or two new, for that, they’ll get the training if they want it, plus courses on audiology.com
Also, sw usually have hints all over the place.
If fitter fits by rem based live speech mapping, then base fit for quiet will be achieved in 30 minutes, no matter the tech level or model.
Digging through the new features is about getting more out of the aids. But all current aids (except widex) can give (for almost all people) good results after single fitting.
Then you go home, take notes and work together with your fitter to yield more out of them, and tweak them. That’s a process no matter which aids you do, even when you switch just to different tech level of the same model.
In short, if your fitter knows what they’re doing, you can safely start your trial immediately.
If they don’t know, you’re doomed no matter how long you wait. So, better to find a good fitter or spend hundreds of hours and learn to be one for yourself.
222833UK_TD_Charger_Oticon_miniRITE_R.pdf (188.7 KB)
222836UK_TD_Oticon_More_miniRITE_R.pdf (1.3 MB)
221230UK_IFU_Charger_Oticon_miniRITE_R.pdf (1.1 MB)
219448UK_IFU_Oticon_More_miniRITE_R_10.20.pdf (3.0 MB)
Yes that does seem to be lagging and I still don’t buy into hearing aids that claim they work well for all ranges of hearing loss. In any case it seems the CES 2021 is pretty much a non-event for hearing aid news. Yes the “More” is being announced but Oticon doesn’t go into detail how the aid supposedly works with On-Board Deep Neural Network. Seems it more “headline advertising” news then actual nuts an bolts news.
Yeah, above the board it may appear that way. But I’ve posted some whitepaper links I already found online on the Deep Neural Network and on the new Polaris platform in a few posts above in this thread. If you really want to understand how the nuts and bolts of the DNN works, just read the YouTube videos introducing the idea of DNN first so you have a foundation of knowledge on DNN first, then read the 2 whitepapers mentioned above next, then things will start to make a lot more sense. That should give you a fairly good idea of the nuts and bolts.
If those things are too deep, and you only want to see more detailed specs and manuals, then Abram Bailey just posted some great info in the post just before yours.
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Available now in the U.S.
Looks like the oticon.com/more webpage is finally available online for viewing. I see 3 papers uploaded on their site now
Uploading so we don’t lose them.
15500-0635—oticon-more-clinical-evidence-whitepaper.pdf (2.6 MB)
15500-0617—audiology-of-oticon-more-whitepaper.pdf (1.7 MB)
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I see Bluetooth Low Energy in the brochure but no mention of Bluetooth Low Energy Audio, which is a different standard made specifically for audio. Any idea if Bluetooth LE Audio will be supported?